Copper Fouling or what?

[RobStar]

I've been shooting a lot with my Rem 700 based Lilja barreled 300 Win Mag and am having a real problem getting my barrel clean.

I shoot Barnes TTSX factory copper because one location I hunt requires non-lead bullets.

Last weekend I spent roughly 1.5 hours scrubbing with a nylon brush and Remington X40 bore cleaner. After 40 patches they were still pretty much as black as when I started.

Yes, I use a bore guide and one-piece carbon fiber rod.

After that didn't work, I Googled hard to clean barrels and found a lot info on copper fouling and lots of chemical options. Since I use Barnes copper bullet it made sense.

After some research I decided to order KB12, some nickle jags, stainless steel brushes etc..

I spent another 1.5 hours on it today. Every time I'd run the stainless brush, the next 2-3 patches were wiping out mostly black, better than last weekend but black to dark gray.

I guess my next step is Wipe-Out which is available locally and apparently tells a story of what is going on by the color of the subsequent patches.

It's not like this rifle is old and has never been cleaned, I maybe have 300 or so total rounds through it.

*** am I doing wrong or using wrong? I've been cleaning my guns for 45 years and have never had a barrel take more than 12-15 patches.

Thanks! Robert

 

[gohring3006]

Can you post pics of the patches? Is this your build or did you buy it from some one. I have a Savage 243 I got from my father in law. And it was doing the same thing. Then I realized. He shot moly bullets thru it. I knew that but it slipped my mind.

 

[RobStar]

Thank you,

The patches are in the trash but I could pull them out. The rifle is custom from Les Webernick at Rifles, Inc. who is a small but respected builder. I bought it brand new. Other than maybe a box of Federal partitions I've only ever shot the Barnes copper.

 

[Iron Worker]

KG12 works ,but use KG1 first to get all the carbon out . Also let it soak for a while. I also use Wipe out in liquid form along with wipe out activator . Soak it with wipe out over night. Then call me in the morning

 

[gohring3006]

If it were me, I would run a really saturated oil patch thru it and in the morning run dry patches thru it until they come out dry and see if that takes care of it.
As much as you scrubbed it being a Lilga barrel I would say it's copper free. It's got to be from the nylon brushes or something from the rod.
Be careful with all that scrubbing, you can ruin a barrel from all that cleaning.

 

[dok7mm]

KG-12 does not leave a green or blue signature as do other copper specific cleaners, but does leave a grey signature at times. A dedicated carbon cleaner should be initial step in cleaning. Is yours a moly carbon or stainless barrel. If you have access to a borescope, a quick inspection will tell you what is going on.

 

[Gene]

When using abrasive paste cleaners like JB, Iosso, Rem., etc., patches will always come out with a black or gray stain. After you think you have scrubbed enuf, run a few patches thru with your favorite solvent on them. Follow with a very tight clean patch. Pump it thru several times. If that patch is clean, you are done. If there is black or gray stain on the patch, you have powder fouling. Blue on patch is copper

 

[Dosh]

Rob, a stainless brush is a no-no for any barrel. Hours of scrubbing isn't good for barrels either. Try a very bright LED flashlight down the muzzle with a Q-tip, the light reflects off the white tip so you can see if copper remains. As mentioned an overnight soak with WipeOut or a good non-damaging copper cleaner should remove most copper fouling. The less traffic in a barrel the better to protect the lands from undue damage. Good luck

 

[RobStar]

Thank you! When I look down the barrel it looks like I could eat off of it. I see nothing at all other than a very shiny barrel.

I'm headed to Sportsman's Warehouse to get some Wipe-Out so I can get a definitive answer on what if anything is in there.

I'm wondering if the black/gray I was seeing come out of the barrel on the patches after scrubbing with the stainless brush and KB12 was brush not copper?

BTW, I did use the KG1 carbon cleaner first that someone asked about but I don't have a bore scope or access to one.

Robert
Las Vegas

Rob, a stainless brush is a no-no for any barrel. Hours of scrubbing isn't good for barrels either. Try a very bright LED flashlight down the muzzle with a Q-tip, the light reflects off the white tip so you can see if copper remains. As mentioned an overnight soak with WipeOut or a good non-damaging copper cleaner should remove most copper fouling. The less traffic in a barrel the better to protect the lands from undue damage. Good luck

 

[WapitiBob]

I shoot nothing but Barnes in my STW. I use 2 wet patches with butch's to clean the carbon, then 2 dry patches. The I wet a bronze/phosphor brush and cycle it thru the bore a few times. Another couple wet patch, then dry, then one wet patch. If there is any copper on the last wet patch I will use Wipe-out, letting it sit for maybe an hour. That's it.

I used to use a plastic brush but early on I had some copper welded in the bore. Plastic was a waste of time. I used the phosphor brush and after about 50 cycles the bore was smooth again. Prior to that, you could feel the bristles going over the copper. Like going over railroad ties.

 

[RobStar]

I filled the barrel with Wipe-Out and what is dripping out the muzzle end is definitely blue!

 

[RobStar]

This was my first patch after one hour of Wipe-Out. Clearly powder and copper fouling. I'm just amazed at how clean the bore looked after two extensive cleaning sessions and still getting this much out with Wipe-Out!

Pardon the play by play but I'm blown away. I will update when I'm done.

Robert

 

[dok7mm]

Now, you have a better idea what you need to do. Soak it with WipeOut and give it time, dry patch it until you get no color. Then soak it again. Repeat until you are getting no color on patches. That is why I mentioned the KG-12 gives no color for copper fouling. A better cleaning system is to use BoreTech Eliminator with non-brass jags and brushes (nix the stainless brushes and use high quality nylon brushes). Let the BTE do the work for you. I have used the WipeOut for light fouling barrels only to find it took BTE to get all the copper out. Watch your accuracy and when groups open up, it's time to clean. BTE has no ammonia and won't hurt your barrel, but it will get the copper with soaking time and nylon brushes. I'd like to run a borescope in your barrel, just to see what the SS brushes did to it.

 

[RobStar]

Thank you Dok. The color indication is helpful at least tells me what I'm dealing with and I do in fact have copper fouling. As for the stainless brush yesterday I only did about four sets of passes with it and when that didn't resolve it that's when I decided to back off and get better chemicals. As for last weekend I used nylon brushes and patches only.

I shot ten rounds out at the range earlier today and at 200 yards it was shooting 1/2 moa maybe a hair more which is a bit better than before cleaning. Once I get all this copper out I'll definitely keep an eye on the group spreads.

Thanks again. I just finished the second hour soak and patching and there's a noticeable improvement in patch results already.

Robert