jreagle
Well-Known Member
great learning experience so far from all that have contributed. best read in awhile!
would like to add some personal notes around the collet die experiences, etc ......... some is kind of a replay of what has been said here, only repeating for context. If we were standing at your reloading bench staring at your rifle, this is probably where the conversation would be headed.
the last 3 or 4 years have been using lee collet dies with a few different calibers, fired thousands of rounds in total. Have 8-10+ firings on some cases running accuracy loads (1.5-2 grains under max), 85%-90% of the cases have never seen a full sizer. Haven't had problems with run out with the collet dies; .001" max, mostly less than that, the needle on the gauge barely moves when rotating the case. I like the process; a lot of time saved using them; eliminating the case exterior lube and clean up steps. Any cases that show a more difficult bolt lift after firing, setting aside and will full resize, bumping the shoulder .0015"-.002" then shoot to fire form back to the chamber dimensions. have little pieces of paper in my reloading case trays for number of firings on the cases so i know where the necks are in relation to time for annealing.
Also have 1 rifle, a new caliber in the safe, that fl size cases only for it with a .0015" shoulder bump (slightest crush fit when closing bolt; slightly backed off .002" bump). Loaded 4 times fired cases with a proven load without annealing, at the 5th firing today groups opened up so i will anneal those cases as well as the 4 times fired cases in the tray and see if the groups come back down. Also, may have Lee make a custom collet die for me for this one; haven't decided yet. definitely notice the additional time at the loading bench with FL sizing and lube to get finished rounds to shoot though.
Seating the bullet seems to be where i can add to the most run out if not careful with my press handle speed and pressure. Seating in stages; lightly, 2-3 fingers on the handle, slowly just past boat tail, then twist case 1/2 turn and seat the bullet the rest of the way with a little firmer/quicker stroke. Case necks need a little lube to help seating uniformity, especially with an under sized mandrel; using graphite with pretty good results so far. Lee makes an undersize mandrel if more neck tension is needed.
Then i will sort the loaded rounds in the ammo case by run out measurement and shoot them that way in order to gauge how run out affects group size so far .003" or .004" run out, depending on the rifle (YMMV) seems to be the border where groups will start to open up.
really never use factory ammo when chasing problems; only because i dont spend much time and cost trying to see what brand works best in a particular rifle and the brass i am left with is probably something i don't use much. always use a reload that has shown some good results...... also not in the habit of using a bipod for chasing problems; a solid rest under the chamber (close to in line with the AO ring on the scope) of the rifle (where your stock narrows) at the range for firing groups. The bipod on a bench for me seemed to introduce another variable clouding group pattern results.
Make the jump; change the bases and rings. you wont regret it.
and re torque the receiver screws again, don't go too tight. No one ever goes too loose. Check torque after firing 3-5 rounds. Ran a torque test at the range with a couple of rifles last year. They seemed to group best somewhere between 35 inch pounds and 45 inch pounds depending on the rifle, surprisingly each one was different, maybe recoil level was a factor (and the shooter as the usual cause of trouble), not sure. Usually check screw torques each season when the rifles see daylight after storing in the safe. just a side note, alcohol cleaned receiver screws when installed, no extra lube on them (have read where some don't bother and have good results). Scope and ring mount screws are cleaned as well when installed and torqued to mfgr spec, check after firing as well.
Good luck.
Really enjoying the Olympics competitions so far... GO USA!!
would like to add some personal notes around the collet die experiences, etc ......... some is kind of a replay of what has been said here, only repeating for context. If we were standing at your reloading bench staring at your rifle, this is probably where the conversation would be headed.
the last 3 or 4 years have been using lee collet dies with a few different calibers, fired thousands of rounds in total. Have 8-10+ firings on some cases running accuracy loads (1.5-2 grains under max), 85%-90% of the cases have never seen a full sizer. Haven't had problems with run out with the collet dies; .001" max, mostly less than that, the needle on the gauge barely moves when rotating the case. I like the process; a lot of time saved using them; eliminating the case exterior lube and clean up steps. Any cases that show a more difficult bolt lift after firing, setting aside and will full resize, bumping the shoulder .0015"-.002" then shoot to fire form back to the chamber dimensions. have little pieces of paper in my reloading case trays for number of firings on the cases so i know where the necks are in relation to time for annealing.
Also have 1 rifle, a new caliber in the safe, that fl size cases only for it with a .0015" shoulder bump (slightest crush fit when closing bolt; slightly backed off .002" bump). Loaded 4 times fired cases with a proven load without annealing, at the 5th firing today groups opened up so i will anneal those cases as well as the 4 times fired cases in the tray and see if the groups come back down. Also, may have Lee make a custom collet die for me for this one; haven't decided yet. definitely notice the additional time at the loading bench with FL sizing and lube to get finished rounds to shoot though.
Seating the bullet seems to be where i can add to the most run out if not careful with my press handle speed and pressure. Seating in stages; lightly, 2-3 fingers on the handle, slowly just past boat tail, then twist case 1/2 turn and seat the bullet the rest of the way with a little firmer/quicker stroke. Case necks need a little lube to help seating uniformity, especially with an under sized mandrel; using graphite with pretty good results so far. Lee makes an undersize mandrel if more neck tension is needed.
Then i will sort the loaded rounds in the ammo case by run out measurement and shoot them that way in order to gauge how run out affects group size so far .003" or .004" run out, depending on the rifle (YMMV) seems to be the border where groups will start to open up.
really never use factory ammo when chasing problems; only because i dont spend much time and cost trying to see what brand works best in a particular rifle and the brass i am left with is probably something i don't use much. always use a reload that has shown some good results...... also not in the habit of using a bipod for chasing problems; a solid rest under the chamber (close to in line with the AO ring on the scope) of the rifle (where your stock narrows) at the range for firing groups. The bipod on a bench for me seemed to introduce another variable clouding group pattern results.
Make the jump; change the bases and rings. you wont regret it.
and re torque the receiver screws again, don't go too tight. No one ever goes too loose. Check torque after firing 3-5 rounds. Ran a torque test at the range with a couple of rifles last year. They seemed to group best somewhere between 35 inch pounds and 45 inch pounds depending on the rifle, surprisingly each one was different, maybe recoil level was a factor (and the shooter as the usual cause of trouble), not sure. Usually check screw torques each season when the rifles see daylight after storing in the safe. just a side note, alcohol cleaned receiver screws when installed, no extra lube on them (have read where some don't bother and have good results). Scope and ring mount screws are cleaned as well when installed and torqued to mfgr spec, check after firing as well.
Good luck.
Really enjoying the Olympics competitions so far... GO USA!!