Compressed loads and pressure

[pods8]

I'm shooting the Nosler AB 140. I use it for deer and blackbear here locally. I eventually will have to make a copper only bullet load because I live in CA. It's such horse****.

I don't like that CA REQUIRES lead free bullets but that aside I'm excited to give them a go personally (and I'm not required).

A lead core hitting an elk shoulder for instance sends off quite a bit of fragmenting and leaves you with the option of trimming away more meat (beyond the obvious blood shot) that just has some small slit channels through it (from lead/jacket/bone would be the question) or potentially eating the lead. The latter issue matters to some and not to others. Since I feed 3 little kids I'm trying to avoid if feasible. But I wouldn't trade off accuracy/bullet quality just to go lead free alone.

However as you see I've worked up some very accurate loads in both 7mm-08 and 30-06 with the barnes (machined bullets are going to be rather consistent across a lot which is a bonus). Also I know they will be very robust so sending one into a high shoulder of an Elk I know they'll hold together well. Since they'll hold together they shouldn't detonate and destroy a whole shoulder, just punch a wound channel through. Also after trimming blood shot meat away I'll be fine eating the stuff that has the previously mentioned small wound channels in it since its either copper or bone at that point.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

If you are not flattening primers, opening pockets, seeing ejector marks or expanding case heads you are not into HOT loads.

You will see a few of these if not all of these signs when you approach your max.

If you dont know you max, you are setting your self up for confusion in the future.

 

[Marble]

I don't like that CA REQUIRES lead free bullets but that aside I'm excited to give them a go personally (and I'm not required).

A lead core hitting an elk shoulder for instance sends off quite a bit of fragmenting and leaves you with the option of trimming away more meat (beyond the obvious blood shot) that just has some small slit channels through it (from lead/jacket/bone would be the question) or potentially eating the lead. The latter issue matters to some and not to others. Since I feed 3 little kids I'm trying to avoid if feasible. But I wouldn't trade off accuracy/bullet quality just to go lead free alone.

However as you see I've worked up some very accurate loads in both 7mm-08 and 30-06 with the barnes (machined bullets are going to be rather consistent across a lot which is a bonus). Also I know they will be very robust so sending one into a high shoulder of an Elk I know they'll hold together well. Since they'll hold together they shouldn't detonate and destroy a whole shoulder, just punch a wound channel through. Also after trimming blood shot meat away I'll be fine eating the stuff that has the previously mentioned small wound channels in it since its either copper or bone at that point.

I think next year I will start the non-lead bullet reloading. I'm not happy about it, but I don't think it's going to go away.

I have never in my life eaten meat from a big game animal that had lead in it. Birds, well that's different. I've chomped down on to those before.

My sirocco bullets perform like you described on Elk. They stay together no matter what they hit and do not fragment into little pieces.

 

[Marble]

If you are not flattening primers, opening pockets, seeing ejector marks or expanding case heads you are not into HOT loads.

You will see a few of these if not all of these signs when you approach your max.

If you dont know you max, you are setting your self up for confusion in the future.

I agree. It's just with AI shells, there isn't a published MAX for each bullet/powder combination. And, my AI is not a common round either. I don't know of anyone else that has one, although I'm sure there are.

So when I get these new loads down range, hopefully next week, I'll report back.

 

[pods8]

I have never in my life eaten meat from a big game animal that had lead in it. Birds, well that's different. I've chomped down on to those before.

I'd wager you and all the rest of most certainly have. If you're assuming you'll bite down on a piece of lead, no that isn't typically the case in what I'm talking about. When the supersonic round hits an animal a portion of the soft lead fragments microscopically and disperses (farther than you'd think). Also any bits that end up in the grind pile get dispersed more so. They've done testing on shot animals and processed meat (Xray on animals, CT-scans on meat, etc.) which most certainly show lead dispersed throughout both (beyond just the wound channel proper in the case of the carcass).

Now all that said, does it really affect ones health in a meaningful way? That's for each one of us to decide for ourselves in my opinion.

I was more so swayed by the fact I have little kiddos eating it and IF I could get an accurate/robust performance out of a mono bullet I figured I'd give it a go. Well I know the loads are very accurate so check that one off. Ideally over the coming weeks I'll see how their performance on game is and go from there.

Here's a link just as an FYI of what happens with lead bullets fragmenting. Don't go thinking I'm some anti-lead kool-aid drinker and believe everything 100% as spoon fed but the concepts being discussed fully make sense in how lead breaks up. Again make your own choices if it bothers you or not: http://www.nps.gov/pinn/naturescience/leadinfo.htm

 

[Marble]

So an update on my loading for this gun. I basically shelved the little gun until recently and started working on the gun just recently.

Went out and shot it the other day and it shot like crap! I figured out that after a ton of rounds being sent down range killing coyotes, I needed to clean it. Cleaned the barrel really good, scoped the bore and all is good! I was really concerned the barrel was toast.

So I shot the H4350 loads and they all shot better than the RL15. The hotter the load, the more accurate it got. So I am going to go load and shoot 50, 50.5 and 51 H4350 pushing a Nosler 140 AB.

My RL 15 loads were showing 2850 (I thought it was 2950) and the H4350 was showing 2950. No signs of pressure at all and better accuracy. Maybe I'll have a picture for next time.

Oh, and there is a new scope on the gun. I took the old one (Leu 3-9x50 30 mm tube) and put it on a new .223. Got a Vortex 4-16x50 30mm tube.

Hopefully I can go shoot this week since I am off work this week.

 

[MagnumManiac]

So an update on my loading for this gun. I basically shelved the little gun until recently and started working on the gun just recently.

Went out and shot it the other day and it shot like crap! I figured out that after a ton of rounds being sent down range killing coyotes, I needed to clean it. Cleaned the barrel really good, scoped the bore and all is good! I was really concerned the barrel was toast.

So I shot the H4350 loads and they all shot better than the RL15. The hotter the load, the more accurate it got. So I am going to go load and shoot 50, 50.5 and 51 H4350 pushing a Nosler 140 AB.

My RL 15 loads were showing 2850 (I thought it was 2950) and the H4350 was showing 2950. No signs of pressure at all and better accuracy. Maybe I'll have a picture for next time.

Oh, and there is a new scope on the gun. I took the old one (Leu 3-9x50 30 mm tube) and put it on a new .223. Got a Vortex 4-16x50 30mm tube.

Hopefully I can go shoot this week since I am off work this week.

I would like to give you some advice. I own several AI and improved cartridges, to get load data, you take MAX loads listed for the parent case as START loads for the improved chamber.
Start there and work up in .5gr increments. Now, with an improved chamber, the increase in chamber size reduces velocity while fireforming, but, the increase in velocity will be a mirror of the decrease. If you lose 150fps fireforming, don't expect to be able to gain more than this amount without excessive pressure.
A 10% increase with an AI chamber is not accurate across the board, some are more, like the 30-30, and most are less.
If you expect to get traditional excessive pressure signs, you will be sorely mistaken.
The first sign I see, without other signs, are cratered and flattened primers with or without ejector marks. I rarely get hard or sticky bolt lift or extraction.
Luckily, I have a Pressure Trace II, velocity is a good indicator of pressure. My 375 Weatherby gets in excess of 200fps increase over the standard H&H case with normal pressures. My 22-250AI gets 150fps maximum, anything higher than this is in excessive pressures. The gun may take it, but, the brass doesn't.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[Marble]

That is good advice and much appreciated!

I have 50 new Hornaday brass I need to fire form. The lady time I did fire forming I bought 5 boxes of factory Hornaday ammo and just shot it till it was gone. I then used the brass to reload. For loading my own stuff, you have any suggestions?

Per your advice I will start at the 50 grains of H4350 and work up from there. I'll pay close attention to the primers as I always do. I don't suspect I'll need much more load development as I already am pretty close.

 

[Marble]

So good news. I loaded up more off the H4350@50 grains pushing a 140 AB. Average was 2950 fps and less than 3/4" group. The gun does kick a little harder but accuracy and velocity have improved. My wife ended up killing her first buck with it and she said that it barely kicked...lol