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Cold Bore Accuracy course in Montana - Spring 2017

jameydan

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Joined
Sep 19, 2009
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The Montana Rifle and Pistol Association (MRPA) is sponsoring a free 3-4 day cold bore accuracy course during the Spring of 2017. Dates and location in Montana to be determined. The course will focus on cold bore accuracy. In the end, three different methods of establishing cold bore hit probability based on equipment and shooter field skills will be discussed and practiced.
This course is not a long range hunting course, but rather a cold bore accuracy hunting course. The course is intended to share information, techniques and live fire practice with those that have an interest or business with clients that participate in what is commonly referred to as long range hunting. Seating is limited to 9 participants. The Montana Outfitters and Guides Association has already requested two of the seats in the course. The MRPA welcomes a variety of backgrounds and skills to include outdoor equipment manufacturers and outdoor writers to name a few. We also hope to see additional outfitters and guides whose clientele includes those hunting in Montana. Rifles, ammunition, and other field equipment for the course is available upon request.
More information will be made at a later date. Although the program and instruction topics for the most part are developed, we are soliciting topics that individuals may want to see included in the course. The information and techniques will be provided by well versed long range shooters and hunters that are concerned foremost with cold bore accuracy.
Contact Jamey Williams, MRPA president, at "mtrpa.info at gmail dot com" if you have an interest in attending the course. Also feel free to post your questions or topics of discussion here.
 
Why is the MRPA hosting this class?

Several reasons! We are a not for profit 501c4 whose mission revolves around helping its members become better marksmen - whether target shooting or hunting. Find a long range competitor in the MRPA and likely you will find a big game hunter. Hunting is an area of interest for MRPA members to request assistance with education and training. The number one objective of the MRPA is to educate and train responsible youth and adult citizens in the safe and efficient use of arms. The efficient use of arms is acquired in a well-organized and competent manner. Responsibility, safety, efficiency and competence parallel and complement each other when using arms for various activities.

We are putting this class together in order to help individuals determine what their ethical, cold bore or first shot on big game should be primarily in terms of using distance and position selection as a control measure. The total hunting scenario is dynamic with influences from the shooters skill, environmental influences, firing position, and the accuracy and precision of the hunting system. Simply put, this class will leave the shooter with the knowledge of whether or not they should take a shot in a particular situation or attempt to use control measures, such as distance, to get closer (or even farther) to increase the probability of an ethical first shot kill. This class will also provide guides with a method to fairly quickly determine the capabilities of their clients based off the most likely hunting conditions to be encountered. Some of us have, unfortunately, witnessed the blemish of hunters taking too far of shots and repeatedly missing. Or worse still, wounding big game, and unable to get follow on shots in the vitals. This does a great disservice to the hunting community as a whole. Wildlife are a public resource, belonging to all, and we need to manage them appropriately, including their ethical harvest.


Data Capture from Competitive Shooting

This past season the MRPA took an effort to utilize F-Class competition as a way to capture efficiency on known sized targets at known distance. A large data set from F-Class shooting was used to estimate first shot or cold bore hit percentage against record score. Efficiency can be captured in terms of hit percentage. High hit percentage reflects high efficiency likewise low hit percentage reflects low efficiency. Target efficiency through target practice is a common method toward estimating field big game hunting efficiency.

To further make a correlation of efficiency with target shooting transitioning to big game hunting, similarities and differences between F-Class competition and hunting need addressed. First, F-Class target shooting is more of a static event compared to hunting. F-Class targets and firing positions are fixed at known distance. Firing positions are cleared and level. Competitors travel little distance from vehicles to the firing points. Rifles are often built to near the rulebook weight limit of 18 pounds with several surpassing 20 pounds for the open class. Range flags used as wind indicators are located throughout the range. Second, Deep Creek Rifle Range outside Missoula, Montana was used to collect data from the 2016 competitive season. Deep Creek has a reputation to be one of the most forgiving places to shoot long range.

The data collected this year from Deep Creek included scores from the Michigan Army National Guard sniper team that won the 2016 International Sniper Competition, long range national record holders in both F-Class and Benchrest, prior state and regional long range champions, Benchrest competitors, PRS competitors, and a large group of about the best precision hand-loaders from around the region and country. Competitors who partake in cold bore accuracy hunting report their field hunting conditions, at best, equal the target shooting environment at the Deep Creek Rifle Range. More often, the dynamics of hunting present greater difficulty and challenge than what is encountered on a rifle range.

While competitors were not informed how their scores would be utilized, there was encouragement to make first sighting shots down range count. Awards during the season included cash gift cards and custom match barrels drawn for initial sighting shots connecting with the ten ring. Having awards for the initial sighting shots provided a mechanism to compel competitors to make their first sighting shot the best shot they could possibly make - in often the ideal conditions at a top competitive range. A fairly large data set of several thousand shots fired by numerous competitors at 13 Matches fired in the Spring through Fall were collected.


What the Data Showed

(See attached pdf for tables/info) The top table illustrates first round sighting shot percentage connecting with the nine or ten ring on perfect scores fired throughout the season. Thirty four perfect scores were recorded. As noted, first shots connecting with a 1 MOA(+) ten ring remains low with an average of approximately 30%. In other words, the seasoned competitors firing perfect record scores are only hitting the 1 MOA ten ring one out of every three initial sighting shots.

The second table illustrates the season average from the various range fired. First round sighting shots on a 1 MOA(+) sized target remains low. However following sighting shots, hit percentage on a 2 MOA(+) sized target is high. Additionally, 100% of the competitors were able to hit a 1 MOA ten ring at least once if not multiple times during record fire. With sighting shots and being able to see where the previous record shot hit, every competitor was able to hit a 1 MOA 10 ring every match. In contrast, NO competitor was able to hit the 10 ring with 90% or higher efficiency with their first round. Simply, to achieve efficiency in a target shooting environment, sighting shots on a 1 MOA target are necessary even by the most experienced long range competitors using target rifles in a target range environment.

The third table breaks out the different classes and percentages.

The Benchrest statistics illustrate precision (group size) and accuracy (score) complementing each other. It is difficult to obtain high scores without the ability for a rifle to shoot good groups. The Benchrest example illustrates on season average, precision plays equal importance to accuracy. However, sighting shots were not taken into account in this illustration only the record scores and groups.

The last 2016 F-Class nationals illustration was a check to the 2016 Deep Creek results. With the sampling from F-Class nationals, first round sighting shots remain low in percentage on a ten ring 1 MOA target.


Findings of Data and its application to hunting

The common misguided credence of target precision and/or target accuracy being an equal comparison to cold bore efficiency is misleading and an apples to oranges comparison. An example to this mistaken belief would be evident by comparing the 800 yard record scores to first round sighting shots. As mentioned in the first table, 20 perfect scores at 800 yards were recorded during the season with more than half the shots landing within the X-ring 2.5" or less from center! This might, wrongly, suggest to one their marksmanship and rifle/ammo accuracy would be perfectly ethical for an 800yd shot on an animal. The average X count on the 20 perfect scores was 10 for an average score of 150-10X. It would be difficult in today's competitive environment if not impossible to find a single competitor who would not be content to shoot a perfect score with two thirds X count on average during a Long Range F-Class match. However, if the 20 first round sighting shots from the perfect score cards were added together to compile a record string, the resulting score would be 184-1X. Scale this score to a 15 shot 800 yard match and the result would be 138-1X. A for record score of 138-1X would have placed in the bottom 5% of competitor scores overall. Only 35% of the first sighters landed in the 10" ten ring. In big game hunting, the first shot is predominately considered the "for record shot."


In closing, some of the finest serving professionals and long range competitors are not hitting a 1 MOA sized target with a respectable level of efficiency with first round shots. The vital zone of a deer is commonly equated to a 10" disk or the equivalent of the ten ring at 1000 yards. This data is compelling in that even the top of the pyramid of long range competitors, on average, require a 2 MOA sized target for first round shots to obtain an approximate 60%-78% level of efficiency. The MRPA considers a first shot efficiency rate of 90%-99% during practice a responsible and appropriate percentage to consider before attempting to take big game while hunting. The MRPA is committed to training and education with the responsible, safe and efficient use of arms. As such, the MRPA will be hosting a free 3-4 day cold bore accuracy hunting course the Spring of 2017 instructed by well versed long range competitors and established cold bore accuracy hunters. This class is open to all, and not just MRPA members. In the end, three different methods of estimating field hunting first round shot success against the vitals of the intended big game animal will be instructed, discussed, and practiced. More information regarding this course will be posted on a later date.
 

Attachments

  • Season Summary.pdf
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All of my LR practice is this....1 shot at a rock from 1 position. Move and repeat. Walking them in means NOTHING on critters. If you can't hit a vital sized spot at whatever range you are shooting 90% of the time AND are shooting a caliber with some INSURANCE, then you are past your real range cap.
And IMHO Horsepower does have something to do with it. I will take a shot with a 300 gr SMK t 2850 FPS that I won't take with a 6.5 Creed. You aren't supposed to RELY on horsepower for kills, but it sure does give you some wind insurance and bad hit insurance.
Every shot in the field is unique and variable.
A deer bedded under a center pivot with 4 miles of short grass surrounding it with a big 338 is a different scenario than n elk at the edge of a large forest late in the evening.
 
All of my LR practice is this....1 shot at a rock from 1 position. Move and repeat. Walking them in means NOTHING on critters. If you can't hit a vital sized spot at whatever range you are shooting 90% of the time AND are shooting a caliber with some INSURANCE, then you are past your real range cap.
And IMHO Horsepower does have something to do with it. I will take a shot with a 300 gr SMK t 2850 FPS that I won't take with a 6.5 Creed. You aren't supposed to RELY on horsepower for kills, but it sure does give you some wind insurance and bad hit insurance.
Every shot in the field is unique and variable.
A deer bedded under a center pivot with 4 miles of short grass surrounding it with a big 338 is a different scenario than n elk at the edge of a large forest late in the evening.

I agree with this post. Good advise.

The stats given in this thread are eye opening.

Steve
 
I 100% agree.
This course sounds very interesting, and I like integration of formal competition with hunting scenarios.
We've all heard the "minute of elk" or "minute of deer" comments about how accurate a rifle (and shooter) needs to be in order to hunt.
I've always thought the statement to be absurd. To me, accuracy in hunting a living creature is MUCH more important than shooting at steel or a piece of paper.
 
I 100% agree.
This course sounds very interesting, and I like integration of formal competition with hunting scenarios.
We've all heard the "minute of elk" or "minute of deer" comments about how accurate a rifle (and shooter) needs to be in order to hunt.
I've always thought the statement to be absurd. To me, accuracy in hunting a living creature is MUCH more important than shooting at steel or a piece of paper.

And not just accuracy but HORSEPOWER.
I prefer a 338 for any LRH. I know I'm not supposed to miss my hold but, uhhhhh hmmmmm, yeah it CAN happen.
We should always plan for a worst case scenario. There are lot of 6.5 and 7mm being built for 1k shots. I'm tempted as well. Accurate, lighter and cheaper.

What happens when a critter decides to take a step while bullet is in air? TOF at 1k is over 1 second for every rig out there. How far can a deer or elk move in 1 second? A LOOOOOOOOONG ways.

Too many people (Myself included) gauge their effectiveness on where they hit. Even if a 6.5 hits every time at 1k it doesn't mean it's going to be effective. Steel doesn't walk, critters do.

I don't elk hunt and that's a different thing, but on deer I ASSume that I may make a bad hit. A 338 will take the *** out of ASSume real quick on a deer sized animal.

When you are considering your max range, throw in an HONEST evaluation of the shot. A bedded animal has a lot more leeway than a standing animal. An animal with head down feeding is way different than an alert animal. An animal with other animals near it is different than a lone critter. A male animal in the rut is ALWAYS a crapshoot unless it's asleep. Even then it could stand up at any time.

I figure any shot I take may go wrong. If my destructive capacity and ability to track it down won't allow a kill every time, I don't shoot. A 300gr 338 SMK at 2850 will turn a bad shot good real quick. A 6mm 115 at 3k won't. When I shoot I KNOW that if I hit the animal anywhere it's dead or can be easily found for a closing shot. Terrain, animal and time of day all matter.
 
Very interesting info.My take on part of it is,I have spent time with a friend that won nationals this year in 1000 bench.Saw him at gas station on way out,we were both off archery elk.They are all about siters and wind.For one thing he shoots a 6mm dasher.Ive seen him shoot 5 shot groups in the 2's.But that doesnt work as a LRH round.Not as comparable to Joe Russo on here that if I have it right shot 4 shot in 3.8 at 1680Y.And the bench shooter friend has had toys like 338 AI,300NMAI,and so on.Joe does one mile shoots and has for years with some version of a large 338 like a big baer.
 
Very interesting info.My take on part of it is,I have spent time with a friend that won nationals this year in 1000 bench.Saw him at gas station on way out,we were both off archery elk.They are all about siters and wind.For one thing he shoots a 6mm dasher.Ive seen him shoot 5 shot groups in the 2's.But that doesnt work as a LRH round.Not as comparable to Joe Russo on here that if I have it right shot 4 shot in 3.8 at 1680Y.And the bench shooter friend has had toys like 338 AI,300NMAI,and so on.Joe does one mile shoots and has for years with some version of a large 338 like a big baer.

I remember that, and yes you got it right ...

russogroup1.jpg
 
Who is teaching the class?
What is the cost?
what are the dates?
Jeremy,

The MRPA is finalizing the dates of the course with the Montana ranch where training will take place. Most likely the dates will be in May and it will be held in the Helena/Great Falls vicinity.

Our instructors are volunteers with experience coaching and shooting in a variety of competitive shooting and hunting disciplines. They foremost believe in the mission of the organization and preserving the future of hunting. The instructors come from a variety of walks of life including current and former service members, engineers and medical professionals - all with a common thread of a passion for hunting. The lead instructor holds multiple national records in NRA Highpower competitive shooting with the majority of experience in the field.

There is no cost for attendance. We are not out sell anything or gain anything with this class. We are just trying to get people to consider what is an ethical distance they should be attempting to take game at. The MRPA is a not for profit organization with a primary objective to train and educate responsible youth and adult citizens in the safe and efficient use of arms. There are limited shooting seats in the course however, we are considering opening up additional seats for non-shooting participants.
Once finalized, details and curriculum on the course will be provided at a later date.
Let me know if you have additional questions.

Thanks,

JW
 
JW: My hat is off to you and your organization for putting something like this on. The hunting/shooting world needs more positive activities like this in these times. If there is anything I could do to help or become involved please feel free to let me know.
 
I remember that, and yes you got it right ...

russogroup1.jpg

Very interesting info.My take on part of it is,I have spent time with a friend that won nationals this year in 1000 bench.Saw him at gas station on way out,we were both off archery elk.They are all about siters and wind.For one thing he shoots a 6mm dasher.Ive seen him shoot 5 shot groups in the 2's.But that doesnt work as a LRH round.Not as comparable to Joe Russo on here that if I have it right shot 4 shot in 3.8 at 1680Y.And the bench shooter friend has had toys like 338 AI,300NMAI,and so on.Joe does one mile shoots and has for years with some version of a large 338 like a big baer.

This photo of a terrific group at a distance illustrates some of the points the class is going to make. Mr Russo shot an incredibly small group at an ELR, but yet that group is not centered. Depending on the position of the elk or deer, any of those shots either completely missed or perhaps wounded the animal. As many understand here, it is about accuracy vs precision.

The post by sp6x6 makes mention of the 1000 yd benchrest champ. I believe this is Tom that you are speaking of, and his shots at the Missoula F-class regional are included in the data and cited in the previous posts.

As noted, more info will follow, and there appears to be good interest in the class. The primary instructor is watching this thread and will chime in if anyone has specific questions.

Respectfully,
JW

(PS: My comments about Mr Russo's target are to illustrate a point and not be critical in any shape of his outstanding performance. Also, while I do not know Tom well, I do understand he is a skilled hunter. My comments are not to be taken out of context.)
 
Toms a great guy,very helpful in the sport.And has shot multiple WRecords in 1000 bench.He is a member here but not on that much...to busy shooting.:)
 
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