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coal question

Bigeclipse

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Aug 10, 2012
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so im working up a new load for my 3006...this time I actually measured my distance to lands in my rifle. I got 3.53!? the high in my loading manuals is 3.34...that is a large difference. so I loaded one round to 3.45 which is actually around .080 off the lands and I have to say the round looks crazy long and the bullet was barely seated. does this sound right?
 
so im working up a new load for my 3006...this time I actually measured my distance to lands in my rifle. I got 3.53!? the high in my loading manuals is 3.34...that is a large difference. so I loaded one round to 3.45 which is actually around .080 off the lands and I have to say the round looks crazy long and the bullet was barely seated. does this sound right?

The coal's listed in manuals are there as a guideline for the average reloader. To get the most out of your rifle and load you need to find what your rifle likes including coal. What bullet are you useing in your 06? Most all my rifles like to be around .015" off the lands. Most times it will be determined by the bullet and where it shoots best. If you are shooting a lighter bullet it may not be long enough to reach the lands and still be able to be held in the neck of the case. Hope this helps.
 
Is the barrel a factory barrel? Some manufacturers make the throats on the long side to avoid liability when a handloader trys to "jam load" COAL. A recommendation I have read is to always seat at least one caliber length into the neck to assure proper retention and decent runout. A long jump isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as the rifle shoots well. Weatherbys, for example are spec'd long throated according to what I have read about Mr Roy's original wildcats. They generally shoot like a house afire...
 
The coal's listed in manuals are there as a guideline for the average reloader. To get the most out of your rifle and load you need to find what your rifle likes including coal. What bullet are you useing in your 06? Most all my rifles like to be around .015" off the lands. Most times it will be determined by the bullet and where it shoots best. If you are shooting a lighter bullet it may not be long enough to reach the lands and still be able to be held in the neck of the case. Hope this helps.

I am trying 168fr ttsx...
 
QUOTE=7magcreedmoor;971582]Is the barrel a factory barrel? Some manufacturers make the throats on the long side to avoid liability when a handloader trys to "jam load" COAL. A recommendation I have read is to always seat at least one caliber length into the neck to assure proper retention and decent runout. A long jump isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as the rifle shoots well. Weatherbys, for example are spec'd long throated according to what I have read about Mr Roy's original wildcats. They generally shoot like a house afire...[/QUOTE]

It is a factory remington 700
 
Is the barrel a factory barrel? Some manufacturers make the throats on the long side to avoid liability when a handloader trys to "jam load" COAL. A recommendation I have read is to always seat at least one caliber length into the neck to assure proper retention and decent runout. A long jump isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as the rifle shoots well. Weatherbys, for example are spec'd long throated according to what I have read about Mr Roy's original wildcats. They generally shoot like a house afire...

so using your caliber logic my bullet should be seated to .3inches at minimum since I am shooting a 3006. should thus include the boattail length or just the part of the bullet which makes contact with the neck?
 
As I understand the concept, measure the length with the bullet just starting to resist going into the neck, then go one caliber (.308 in this instance) deeper. This means you wouldn't count the boat tail in the distance we are talking about. Some of my rifle/load combos end up with a little more than one caliber into the neck, and some with slightly less. I wouldn't be comfortable with less than half, but some folks might run with that and have no problems. I have a rifle in which my limiting factor is the magazine box length, and had to have the custom barrel throated to match a dummy round I sent along that had been seated as I just described. It worked out very well. You could begin with this experiment: just lightly press a bullet into the neck, then attempt to chamber it in your rifle (no primer or powder in this case, of course). If you are able to stick the bullet into the lands a little, then a one caliber seating depth would give you a 0.308 jump, which is a bit long, but might not shoot too bad. As long as the bullet will be held with decent neck tension, having a long COAL is neither here nor there. You will find that it will take slightly more charge weight to get back to the same velocity you originally had. Powder charges in manuals are for specific COALs, and when I find the ideal COAL for my rifle, I often will end up with a load that is slightly above the maximum listed, but remember we are filling a slightly larger combustion chamber when we load longer COALs. ALWAYS TEST FOR SIGNS OF EXCESSIVE PRESSURE BEFORE SETTLING ON A LOAD!
 
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Loading manuals often list the COAL for the bullet as the distance from base to tip. That measurement (base to tip) will vary, of course, depending on the bullet you select and the seating depth you choose for that bullet. When you use a gauge (like the Hornady OAL Gauge) to measure the distance to lands, the bullet tip doesn't stop at the end of the free fore; the bullet's nose extends into the lands. The COAL (base to tip combined overall length) you measure by pushing the case/bullet combination until it stops will produce a number greater than the number listed in the manual.
Most reloaders use CBTO (combined base to ogive) as a constant when working on reloading technical data. That's because it is a better indicator of how far the bullet travels before contacting the lands. You would need something like a Hornady OAL Length Gauge to make those comparative measurements.
The term COAL is often used when CBTO is actually what's being described and that can lead to unnecessary confusion.
Hornady OAL Gauge - YouTube
Using the "one caliber seating depth" theory may work in some instances, at least as a starting point, but plugging in such approximations as boat tail lengths etc. are unreliable factors. How long is a "boat tail" and how does it compare mathematically with the caliber? Using the caliber as a seating depth produces no useful test data because bullets of different weights are typically different lengths so seating a 160 grain .30 cal bullet .030 into the case will give you a different COAL than doing the same thing with a 200 grain .30 cal bullet. The Berger 200 grain 30 cal. hybrid is listed as 1.50 in length. The Berger 168 grain 30 cal hybrid is listed at 1.296 in length. Your COAL and distance to lands using these bullets will vary .204 if you used the "one calibe" seating depth. Who want's to rely on those kinds of variables?

I dont think he meant to set one caliber as how to measure my bullet searing but rather he meant make sure I am close to one caliber swap to ensure enough bullet touching neck and such...if you have plenty I'd depth then go ahead and try the .050 off the labds method
 
Try this if my other post wasn't helpful, or maybe just start with this. Berger recommends a COAL test that involves using four different lengths. If you can touch the lands, start with one batch .010" off, the next batch .050", the next batch .090", and finally .130" off the lands. The key is using a comparator to measure the cartridge base-to-ogive consistently, as bullet shapes and the resulting length to the actual tip (meplat) can vary quite a bit. I suppose the term we really should be using is CBTO, not COAL. If you cannot load long enough to touch the lands, they recommend starting at the other end: load the first batch to SAAMI spec length, then each successive batch .040" longer, for four increments. Shoot for groups with each batch, and one will show noticeably better accuracy than the rest. Fine tune around that particular CBTO. My earlier post was more for measuring when you don't have a comparator to fit your bullet, and the Stony Point/Hornady tool to go with it.
 
Try this. Simple super simple and accurate bc it is from your actual bolt face of your gun and not a tool that isn't exactly where the bolt face closes to.

[ame=http://youtu.be/ww6hHJJVBEg]Bullet to the Lands Measurement - YouTube[/ame]
 
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