CO - Gray Wolf Reintroduction eNews Edition

This is not a thread confined to wolves or
hunting or guns. It's just not.

It might have started that way, but look at all the extraneous political opinion content that has been gleefully added and allowed to flourish. It's now filled with straight-up political rants, posing (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) as Wolf-hunting/guns.

In reality, it has become an open forum to bash Colorado's marijuana policy, education policy, our Governor, and our voters' decision to mandate a scientific approach to wolves, taking into account, by law, fair compensation for actual losses sustained by ranchers. With a few cheap shots thrown in at Liberals in general. So many opinions, and so few facts or scientific studies.

Many of you guys have come to Colorado because of our amazing public lands. And because of the amazing wildlife we have, which is so easily accessible as compared to, say, Alaska, or, Africa. And everyone with a lick of common sense can see that, obviously, most of you want to continue coming here. Fine, I have no problem with that.

But, I say, if you enjoy the wildlife, then you had bloody well better get behind protecting the habitat. And the migration corridors. And whatever else the professional biologists tell us the wildlife needs. Also, if you enjoy your access to it all, then you had better stand behind public ownership. Hunting should not, can not, must not, be reserved to eletists !! And that translates to government ownership. Plain and simple, end of story. Moreover, I would say that applies to all states, not just Colorado. And if We The People of Colorado say we want to restore some wolves as part of the wildlife in our state, then you need to respect the decision that we have made for our own state. Or hunt elsewhere. Period.

We all hear a lot of talk these days about privatization of public lands, or selling off public access, or privatization of lands held by the federal or state governments. Wouldn't it be great? Get a deal on 500 acres of formerly federal land? Just to one's self? Exclude everybody else but friends and family? That pernicious philosophy lead to the present state of affairs back East, where there is so precious little public access for hunting, and where those rare public lands are overrun, unless you either know somebody or pay somebody for access. And because of this, we all see so many peoples' interest in coming out west to hunt. There is no free lunch.

Y'all are verbally ****ing all over my state, from the Governor, to the decriminalized marijuana, to our voter initiatives, to the way we have conducted our democracy, to the comparisons with California (which are not about Wolf policy) and I must say I don't much enjoy or appreciate it.

There will be far more deer and elk killed in Colorado by motor vehicles in the coming years than by wolves. So please stop the pathetic use of this topic (wolves) to circumvent the rules here on political posting.

You like the New Hampshire or Ohio state of things? Fine, go find and pay for a hunt there. You prefer Alaska wildlife? Fine, block out a month and go there. (It's kind of been a dream of mine as well.)

In the 1930's, my great-grandfather expressed his opinion that Colorado was then getting overrun with people. The problem here is people, not wolves.
Also a resident. And not against wolves - they are natural and are returning in northern regions already anyway.

However, your comment "our voters' decision to mandate a scientific approach to wolves" is not correct. The voters' decision was to mandate the reintroduction of wolves. A scientific approach would have been to study whether it is useful at this time to devote scarce resources to reintroduce wolves now, not mandate the reintroduction now. (The actual language was: (a) DEVELOP A PLAN TO RESTORE AND MANAGE GRAY WOLVES IN COLORADO, USING THE BEST SCIENTIFIC DATA AVAILABLE;). The difference is game biologists employed by the state already could have studied whether to reintroduce, and when. Since the wolves are here and are beginning to establish themselves in the remotest regions, one approach that could have been studied would have been to allow existing wolf packs to disperse naturally, in balance with the availability of prey and remote range. Another issue that biologists would have studied is how the sudden introduction of wolves will impact the growing and in some regions fragile population of moose - a species whose habits make them particularly vulnerable to large, pack-based predators. Those questions will not be studied now because the reintroduction is mandated.

The word "scientific" can be used by both sides of an issue.
 
The only real enemy of wild animals are humans with their breeding and covering the land with McMansions.

2 billion in 1950, 7+ billion today.

Watch Elysium (movie), your grandchildren will see it.
 
I'm not against wolves as long as they are managed. Wolves or any predator don't just kill the weak and the old. That's utter bs. Hunters pittman and robertson tax dollars go to support healthy huntable herds a long with the game depts. which we pay for tags with. The herds aren't paid for to be controlled by wolves. Anti's, Tree huggers, bird watcher's, etc. Don't contribute a dime towards wildlife . We the hunters and fisherman do so they can enjoy. Wolves decimated the moose here. I went to Yellowstone last May. I didn't see one elk. Hmmmm... I saw only two buffalo calves. Newborns. I felt sorry for those two. Soon to be Scooby snacks. Plenty of bears though. They take elk and buffalo calves at will. Grizzlies are out of control here also . They have no fear of humans. There needs to be a limited hunt for them also. That will get held up in court for years also just like the wolves. At least now we have a wolf hunt. Anti's lawsuits and sympathetic judges do the most damage. The state needs to manage not the Feds.
 
I'm not all for reintroducing wolves just anywhere but they can improve the health of herds. As humans we don't want to have another predator to compete with, we're the ones that decimated the wolves to begin with. But the wolves were here first and if they're so detrimental to herds why did we have millions of buffalo we wiped out?
We had millions of buffalo because the greatest threat the buffalo faced from humans was being run off a cliff by the hundreds or being shot with a primitive arrow or a spear. Now we have millions of people and planes, trains, and automobiles to mismanage the animal populations. If there is a need for wolves in some area, let mother nature fill the gap and humans will handle the overpopulation of the predators, if allowed to do so. To equate wolf populations needed for controlling the game populations of today's America to the buffalo herds of pre-Whiteman ingenuity is pure folly. I'll say it again for the hard of hearing: "Mankind will progress itself to the state of extinction." If we leave any wolves behind, they can take what they want.
 
I'm not against wolves as long as they are managed. Wolves or any predator don't just kill the weak and the old. That's utter bs. Hunters pittman and robertson tax dollars go to support healthy huntable herds a long with the game depts. which we pay for tags with. The herds aren't paid for to be controlled by wolves. Anti's, Tree huggers, bird watcher's, etc. Don't contribute a dime towards wildlife . We the hunters and fisherman do so they can enjoy. Wolves decimated the moose here. I went to Yellowstone last May. I didn't see one elk. Hmmmm... I saw only two buffalo calves. Newborns. I felt sorry for those two. Soon to be Scooby snacks. Plenty of bears though. They take elk and buffalo calves at will. Grizzlies are out of control here also . They have no fear of humans. There needs to be a limited hunt for them also. That will get held up in court for years also just like the wolves. At least now we have a wolf hunt. Anti's lawsuits and sympathetic judges do the most damage. The state needs to manage not the Feds.
The Feds need a country of their own. They have buggered this country up enough. And they need to take most of their judges and Antis and tree-hugging snowflakes with them. Who bred and birthed these wimpy snowflakes anyway? Weren't we doing just fine without them? Maybe they would be happier hand-feeding roadkill to the gray wolves.
 
Pinonpiper, As a Colorado resident I will say and think whatever I like about my state, the government and laws that idiots like you pass and your fellow liberals convince the uninformed and uneducated to pass. Nobody is talking about not hunting Colorado. People who hunt Colorado know whats at stake for our wildlife when a apex predator like the wolf is introduced. The Colorado dept of wildlife did all the research and studied the affects and came to the conclusion that it wasnt feasible to introduce them. So instead people like you decide to make it a ballot box issue full well knowing that the populous liberal cities would have to votes to pass it. Colorado doesnt have the large wilderness areas like wyoming, montana, idaho to support wolves. And look at the problems theyre having. But no people like you will bury your heads in the sand and talk about how wolves wont impact anything and they belong here. And us Neanderthal thinkers will carry the burden of dealing with the aftermath. Get over yourself, you're not mr. Colorado and you **** sure dont speak for me.
Amen brother.
 
This is not a thread confined to wolves or
hunting or guns. It's just not.

It might have started that way, but look at all the extraneous political opinion content that has been gleefully added and allowed to flourish. It's now filled with straight-up political rants, posing (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) as Wolf-hunting/guns.

In reality, it has become an open forum to bash Colorado's marijuana policy, education policy, our Governor, and our voters' decision to mandate a scientific approach to wolves, taking into account, by law, fair compensation for actual losses sustained by ranchers. With a few cheap shots thrown in at Liberals in general. So many opinions, and so few facts or scientific studies.

Many of you guys have come to Colorado because of our amazing public lands. And because of the amazing wildlife we have, which is so easily accessible as compared to, say, Alaska, or, Africa. And everyone with a lick of common sense can see that, obviously, most of you want to continue coming here. Fine, I have no problem with that.

But, I say, if you enjoy the wildlife, then you had bloody well better get behind protecting the habitat. And the migration corridors. And whatever else the professional biologists tell us the wildlife needs. Also, if you enjoy your access to it all, then you had better stand behind public ownership. Hunting should not, can not, must not, be reserved to eletists !! And that translates to government ownership. Plain and simple, end of story. Moreover, I would say that applies to all states, not just Colorado. And if We The People of Colorado say we want to restore some wolves as part of the wildlife in our state, then you need to respect the decision that we have made for our own state. Or hunt elsewhere. Period.

We all hear a lot of talk these days about privatization of public lands, or selling off public access, or privatization of lands held by the federal or state governments. Wouldn't it be great? Get a deal on 500 acres of formerly federal land? Just to one's self? Exclude everybody else but friends and family? That pernicious philosophy lead to the present state of affairs back East, where there is so precious little public access for hunting, and where those rare public lands are overrun, unless you either know somebody or pay somebody for access. And because of this, we all see so many peoples' interest in coming out west to hunt. There is no free lunch.

Y'all are verbally ****ing all over my state, from the Governor, to the decriminalized marijuana, to our voter initiatives, to the way we have conducted our democracy, to the comparisons with California (which are not about Wolf policy) and I must say I don't much enjoy or appreciate it.

There will be far more deer and elk killed in Colorado by motor vehicles in the coming years than by wolves. So please stop the pathetic use of this topic (wolves) to circumvent the rules here on political posting.

You like the New Hampshire or Ohio state of things? Fine, go find and pay for a hunt there. You prefer Alaska wildlife? Fine, block out a month and go there. (It's kind of been a dream of mine as well.)

In the 1930's, my great-grandfather expressed his opinion that Colorado was then getting overrun with people. The problem here is people, not wolves.
They are not you public lands.
 
If you use the argument that wolves should be here because they "were here in the old days", then we need to spend tax $$$ to re-introduce cloned dinosaurs... they were here in the old days as well. If wolves could survive on their own, they would still be here. Wildlife management should be concerned with taking care of the wildlife that is here, not what COULD be here. Everything in this old world cycles, animals, temp, rain, drought, and the environment. It's not man's place to control it, just be a good steward. Placing these kind of issues on the ballot is as smart as giving a fish a bicycle...
 
If you use the argument that wolves should be here because they "were here in the old days", then we need to spend tax $$$ to re-introduce cloned dinosaurs... they were here in the old days as well. If wolves could survive on their own, they would still be here. Wildlife management should be concerned with taking care of the wildlife that is here, not what COULD be here. Everything in this old world cycles, animals, temp, rain, drought, and the environment. It's not man's place to control it, just be a good steward. Placing these kind of issues on the ballot is as smart as giving a fish a bicycle...
I made the same point somewhere else here earlier. Who gets to decide which snapshot of time we use to determine what goes where?

I want to see short faced bears and sabertooth tigers eating hippy cat ladies in Manitou springs. That's nature restored.
 
I made the same point somewhere else here earlier. Who gets to decide which snapshot of time we use to determine what goes where?

I want to see short faced bears and sabertooth tigers eating hippy cat ladies in Manitou springs. That's nature restored.
When internal combustion engines are gone and all of our rifles have been outlawed, then--then we can reintroduce wolves everywhere, including New York City and Hollywood Cali-freakin-fornia.
 
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