Brass projectiles??

JJMoody

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Looking for info, experience and opinions on shooting a lathe turned, brass tipped hollow point made of a brass alloy. Assuming a proper alloy and bullet design, what can a fella expect? I've heard claims of increased barrel life due to higher lubricity, high BCs (great form factor but lighter weight) and faster muzzle velocity. On game performance exceptional, expansion in ballistic gel at minimal and maximum speeds etc.... Steve? Brass, copper??
 

RockyMtnMT

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Brass is too hard. Machines better and costs less. Slightly less dense than copper so bullets would weigh less than pure copper thus losing some bc to the copper bullet. So not what we are interested in. Only good reason to use brass is to cut cost.

Steve
 

JJMoody

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Is there such a thing as a higher lubricity between steel and brass, thus changing barrel life and the pressure curve?
 

RockyMtnMT

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Is there such a thing as a higher lubricity between steel and brass, thus changing barrel life and the pressure curve?
Not that I am aware of. I think there are some claims out there of different materials out there that are said to be better. To my knowledge there is no proof. I think most of the wear comes from the powder and heat.

Steve
 

JJMoody

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Interesting, did not know such a thing even existed.
i don't think this is totally new stuff. There is likely a reason why the big boys use copper either in cup and core or mono. I had a good conversation with a guy experimenting with brass turned projectiles. He was pretty high on the stuff he was making. Any info I supply here is purely for "academic study" at this point.
 

CMP70306

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I used the Lehigh Defense 145gr Controlled Chaos bullets for the past couple years out of my 30-06. They work well at close range and I have taken 4 deer with them with all shots being under 100 yards. The problem is that the brass I believe is tougher than copper as their brass design works down to 2000 fps while the copper works down to 1400 fps.
 

JJMoody

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Is there any merit to the claim that the first engagement of the projectile into the rifling is causing an appreciable throat erosion, as opposed to just powder heat and using a more easily engraved material thus being able to increase barrel life? Are there any folks with barrels-worth of experience on brass projectiles?
 

therifleman556

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I spoke to a tech at Lehigh about the copper vs brass bullets. He basically confirmed what I had expected and said with the brass being a bit more brittle those bullets would produce a smaller particle fragment. The copper controlled chaos line is supposed to expand much like a Barnes, but is designed to shed the petals once they peel back to the shank.

This is primarily why I went with the Lehigh vs the Hammers. I looked into the 71 gr hammer for 243 but went with the 85 grain Lehigh. The Hammer advertised about 70% weight retention, where the Lehigh advertised fragmentation. For something the size of a deer, it claims exactly what I want.
 

Edd

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The Hammer advertised about 70% weight retention, where the Lehigh advertised fragmentation. For something the size of a deer, it claims exactly what I want.
I believe the Hammer bullet retains 70% of it's weight because 30% of it turns into fragments.
 

CMP70306

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Below is the picture of the 145gr brass controlled chaos bullet I recovered from my buck, it was fired from a 30-06 with a MV of 3040 fps. The buck was almost facing me on at 50ish yards and maybe twenty ft below in elevation. The base was found past the lungs above the liver while I was gutting it. The lungs were jelly but all the fragments stopped before the diaphragm and none punctured the guts. The buck simply tipped over dead as far as I could tell through the brush.

When shot broadside I never recover the base as it exits along with a good number of the particles. The exit hole typically looks like a small shotgun blast with a 1" or so exit and a 2" diameter shrapnel zone of bloodshot rib meat. Blood trails are wide and deer only run between 20 and 40 yards. Have not tested on neck shots as all the deer were moving except my buck and there was no way I was neck shooting the biggest buck I'd ever seen while hunting knowing what the exit would look like.

For a close range bullet I have been impressed with their performance on game which has resulted in nothing but quick ethical kills. However based on their numbers they should only work out to 300 yds or so with a MV of 3040 and a range safety factor because of the unconfirmed BC. Due to this I'm switching my primary hunting rifle over to the 178gr ELD-X due to a chance at 350 to 600yd shots across our buddies field. The Lehighs will instead be my primary bullet in my 1895 Carbine which I only hunt with in thick cover.
 

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J E Custom

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Brass and brass alloys are used mostly for dangerous game because they hold together better in tough, dense game and can penetrate deeper than a bullet that expands.

For most other types of hunting, an expanding type of bullet works better and can deliver its energy sooner/quicker. brass or brass alloys have been fairly successful in some target uses because of there ballistics and machinability.

Bullet manufactures have been looking for the "Golden Bullet" for many years and still haven't found a bullet that will do it all.

For every plus that is built into a bullet, there are other areas of loss. Alloys can be machined very accurately and consistently, but other desirable bullet attributes may be lost in certain uses.

There are some very good turned bullets available and there are some very good jacketed bullets also available and one may fill all of the needs better than another, so the type of bullet design will most often be chosen for the total performance for the type of shooting/hunting done.

I have tried machining alloys to gain an advantage, and really found none that gave me everything that I wanted/ hoped for, so I have sense left the bullet manufacture of my bullets up to the bullet manufacturers. and concentrate on choosing which type and design I need for the best overall performance.

Just an opinion

J E CUSTOM
 

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