Body Die or FL Die - Preference and Why?

[nicholasjohn]

All the collet dies should do an ai case with zero modification. If they make a 6.5 Remington mag or 264 win mag they could be cut off in a lathe to the proper length and not need an adapter.
Shep

I probably should have tried a standard 30-06 collet die before springing for a custom die. Why didn't I think of that ?

 

[25WSM]

I'm just chasing the world record. I got the gun to do it right now. Just waiting on that box of perfect bullets. Then a perfectly calm relay right after a heavy rain. Hold my lip right. Have the right underwear on. Have my flip-flops on the right feet. You know the drill.
Shep

 

[cape cove]

Kicker is you will probably get it when you least expect it, like on a rainy day in the wind

 

[nicholasjohn]

I'm just chasing the world record. I got the gun to do it right now. Just waiting on that box of perfect bullets. Then a perfectly calm relay right after a heavy rain. Hold my lip right. Have the right underwear on. Have my flip-flops on the right feet. You know the drill.
Shep

Which lip, Shep ??? I can't put my flip-flops on the right feet, because I have two left feet.

 

[25WSM]

I was shocked when I shot my 3 inch group. Didn't feel like anything special. I was expecting 5 to 6.
Shep

 

[25WSM]

Just the top one. The guys at Williamsport always ask me if I own shoes. Some times I let my daughter paint my toe nails too. When I got 2nd place 2 gun overall a few yrs ago in the world open my toenails were bright orange.
Shep

 

[Stevenstl86]

Problem with trying that is that if you get the die far enough down to move the shoulder back it doesn't just push the shoulder. The body shoulder junction will expand also. The die has enough clearence to not size and the brass will push out into this clearence. Now you have a problem getting this in your chamber. The vast majority of br shooters full length size brass. I don't know one person that neck sizes at our matches. It just doesn't make the most accurate ammo. After 2 or 3 firings brass that is neck sized no longer fits properly and will need to be set back a few thou to fit. The Forster neck size bump dies don't work either because of the expansion at the body shoulder junction previously mentioned. There is absolutely no good reason to not full length size brass. Unless you just don't have a full length die. In that case better just go get one and be done. I know there are guys on here that argue that neck sizing is best. They can do whatever they think best. And staying in the past may be best for them.
Shep

I agree with you 100%. The only reason I have a comp set so I can use different brass thicknesses with different neck tension. Laupa brass was really crimping down on some bullets. Just don't want to over work the brass if I can help it. I'm not setup for annealing. I assume all dies have different tolerances on the body but maybe not much to matter. If I were to send out a few pieces of brass to have a die made is it only going to be good for that chambering on that barrel? So when it gets a new barrel I have to have another die made for it?

 

[25WSM]

Correct. Unless you buy your own reamer and have more barrels made with it.
Shep

 

[6.5-300 BEE]

IMHE, in a good bolt or single shot FL sizing or shoulder bumps are not required very often.

I shoot loads below max and can neck size only (Lee collet or Redding bushing). Even in my 22-06 or 338RUM, I've done 5-8 reloads w/no bump/FL.

Back in the day, with my NM M-1, using polished cases, I only necksized. (Not a "hot" load)

 

[Mikecr]

There are at least a couple things to consider about all this information.

#1 Call to authority fallacies, like so & so "hall of fame shooter says it doesn't matter", rarely leads to any understanding. Reason being: They don't know why, and/or if what they think -is actually true -in a broad sense.
The information there is only information, and not rules or laws or anything nearing that sort of significance.

#2 'FL Bushing' die is usually a misnomer for 'Body-Bushing' die.
The only real FL bushing dies are those that utilize bushings which include the shoulder (neck-shoulder bushings).
There are only a few die makers out there with this approach, and regardless of merchandising, they cause the same basic detriment as standard FL dies --> they FL size necks.
If you want actual FL sizing, including FL sizing of necks, the best in that could very well be custom one-piece FL dies honed to your fired brass.
Personally, FL sized necks is the last thing I would ever want.

As far as runout and affect to results, there is a reason it is, or is not, significant to various scenarios.
I call it chambered tension. Interference to the chamber, from crooked ammo.
Someone also mentioned vertical results from shoulder interference,, an example of what I'm talking about, but I disagree with any need for excess shoulder bumping. I am dead against excess case sizing in any regard.

When the bananas you're producing are chambered, and their runout exceeds chamber clearances, you have chambered tension in some abstract way. A pressure point with results similar to resting your thumb against the barrel near the action, or even on the action tang, during firing. It messes with barrel vibrations.
The best answer here is to simply make straight ammo that chambers freely.

The only trick in it really is understanding it.
And understanding this is important because it leads to understanding other things, that lead to even further understandings. All of which applying to a best plan. Bullet, barrel, load, cartridge, action, chamber, -sizing plan.