FL Bushing Die, FL Die, or Body Die/Neck Collet?

[Brydawg512]

I wanted to thank everyone on this forum for their insight and experiences, and for those of you who have interacted with me on here… yes, I'm a bit thick in the head…

So, I've come to understand I have several options for resizing my brass, I am just wanting to narrow down which avenue I should consider and what exactly I need to purchase to take that route.

To set the stage, I am reloading for my 300 Win Mag. This rifle is throated for 215 Berger Hybrids, which is what I will be shooting. I will be utilizing Peterson brass.

First, I had my eyes on purchasing a Redding Type S Full Length bushing die. This is still an option, but am now hung up on the fact that, since I will not be neck turning, brass inconsistencies are pushed to the ID portion of the brass, which is something I believe would be beneficial to avoid? I am also understanding that this type of die may potentially require purchasing numerous bushings from lot to lot of brass due to inconsistencies in neck thickness? Additionally with this route, is this the die needed to set neck tension — I shouldn't need a mandrel as the collet did the neck resizing?

The next option.. a normal full length resizing die. My understanding is I would need nothing further (i.e. mandrel) than this die to set proper neck tension and resize the brass, with a con being I am working the brass more than I would be with other methods.

Third option, using a Lee Neck Collet to resize the neck and set neck tension in conjunction with a Redding Full Length Bushing Die (bushing removed), to act as a body die to resize and bump the shoulder back. For this option, is there any reason I would need to own a Full Length Resizing Die, other than being able to do everything in one pull compared to this method?

For anyone who is sick of my questions, I get it… truly . I have learned a lot in the last several days about resizing options, and everyone on this forum is to thank for it.

If there is anything I said that is incorrect, please correct me. I'm still trying to obtain a baseline understanding before I start on this journey.

As always, thank you all.

 

[PddPdd]

I haven't used Lee collet dies but I can speak to the other two options.

The Redding, type S, full length bushing die (with pull through stem removed) pros: due to replaceable bushings you can select the amount of resizing on the OD of the neck and the length of the neck that is resized. As you probably know, the IDs can be reamed or sized with a mandrel to fine tune "neck tension". The cons are as you mentioned in your post Note: bushings in S dies are sizing the OD not the ID which is what the stem would do.

Normal full length sizing die: Pros are after setting up, one step and you're done. Cons" you will obtain a fixed neck ID but you can only adjust it by modifying your pull through stem bushing diameter. The length of neck sized is controlled by your die settings but will probably driven by the shoulder bump desired. The bottom line being you have less control over neck tension from lot to lot of brass assuming you're using quality brass.

Hope that helps.

 

[cape cove]

I have used the Redding body die/Lee collet die in several cartridges. Works great and no need for a full length die. Also the DL seater die that comes with the Lee collet die set is IMO the best of the standard seater dies that come with the various sets. JMO

 

[RegionRat]

How is this 300 WM with 215 gr hybrids being used?
Describe the rig details?

All of those dies and methods can work.
If you are dedicated to the caliber, and you load, then having more than one method is handy.

Depending on your chamber, you must decide if you will run no-turn or turn. Most rigs will not be able to shoot that difference

A Type-S bushing does not size all the way to the neck-shoulder junction.

For times when that whole neck diameter needs to be crisp down the the junction, a regular FL die does a better job but does not offer flexibility in diameter. Those times when it is better are typically when you need to evaluate or turn the whole neck down the the shoulder junction.

The Lee Collet combined with body sizing can be a great method.

Having a full set of expander balls, or expanding mandrels means never having to wait and having full controls.

 

[Troutslayer2]

You could use a full length bushing die with the expander ball removed, then use a mandrel to expand the inside of the neck and I feel that is way more consistent than the expander ball built in the die. That's mostly how I do it. I use a decapping die before tumbling, full length resizing bushing die, expander mandrel. I have played around with other stuff but I can't tell the difference at the range and I am mostly building hunting rounds that must chamber in the field without exception, so I full length resize aiming to push the shoulder back .0015"

 

[243winxb]

The Redding expander should just lightly drag on the inside of the lubed case neck, using the correct bushing. Redding Type S FL Bushing die.

You dont have to use the expander. The die comes with a decapper only.

I have 3 bushing each for 243 & 6.5 CM. I some times neck turn, so need the 1 extra bushing.

Remove the expander from S die and use as a body die, with Lee collet neck die, if you want.

I used the Lee Collet. To much work to size a 243 Win case neck. Hard on the press also. No improvement in accuracy, being a tiny bit worse.

 

[BrBa.]

You could use a full length bushing die with the expander ball removed, then use a mandrel to expand the inside of the neck and I feel that is way more consistent than the expander ball built in the die. That's mostly how I do it. I use a decapping die before tumbling, full length resizing bushing die, expander mandrel. I have played around with other stuff but I can't tell the difference at the range and I am mostly building hunting rounds that must chamber in the field without exception, so I full length resize aiming to push the shoulder back .0015"

Full length sizer with expander ball removed, followed by an expander mandrel is what I've been doing since I started. I have a Redding body die and Lee Collet die that I plan to use for an apples to apples comparison whenever I get the time.

 

[Brydawg512]

I haven't used Lee collet dies but I can speak to the other two options.

The Redding, type S, full length bushing die (with pull through stem removed) pros: due to replaceable bushings you can select the amount of resizing on the OD of the neck and the length of the neck that is resized. As you probably know, the IDs can be reamed or sized with a mandrel to fine tune "neck tension". The cons are as you mentioned in your post Note: bushings in S dies are sizing the OD not the ID which is what the stem would do.

Normal full length sizing die: Pros are after setting up, one step and you're done. Cons" you will obtain a fixed neck ID but you can only adjust it by modifying your pull through stem bushing diameter. The length of neck sized is controlled by your die settings but will probably driven by the shoulder bump desired. The bottom line being you have less control over neck tension from lot to lot of brass assuming you're using quality brass.

Hope that helps.

As for the bushing die option, what is the process for that? Do you set the bushing to obtain, say 2k neck tension, then run a mandrel through afterward that would also be to size for 2k neck tension, ultimately working out any ID inconsistencies?

 

[Brydawg512]

I have used the Redding body die/Lee collet die in several cartridges. Works great and no need for a full length die. Also the DL seater die that comes with the Lee collet die set is IMO the best of the standard seater dies that come with the various sets. JMO

I have heard a lot about the body die/Lee collet option.

My understanding is by using a body die and the Lee collet die, you are essentially doing the same thing a full length resizing die would do, but with more control over setting neck tension?

 

[Brydawg512]

How is this 300 WM with 215 gr hybrids being used?
Describe the rig details?

All of those dies and methods can work.
If you are dedicated to the caliber, and you load, then having more than one method is handy.

Depending on your chamber, you must decide if you will run no-turn or turn. Most rigs will not be able to shoot that difference

A Type-S bushing does not size all the way to the neck-shoulder junction.

For times when that whole neck diameter needs to be crisp down the the junction, a regular FL die does a better job but does not offer flexibility in diameter. Those times when it is better are typically when you need to evaluate or turn the whole neck down the the shoulder junction.

The Lee Collet combined with body sizing can be a great method.

Having a full set of expander balls, or expanding mandrels means never having to wait and having full controls.

So, this is a dedicated hunting rig. I would like to mess around at longer ranges on targets, but nothing that is a sanctioned event or competition.

As of now, I don't believe I would benefit from turning necks.

I keep leaning toward the body die/neck collet die option, but like to hear other options that may serve me better.

 

[Brydawg512]

You could use a full length bushing die with the expander ball removed, then use a mandrel to expand the inside of the neck and I feel that is way more consistent than the expander ball built in the die. That's mostly how I do it. I use a decapping die before tumbling, full length resizing bushing die, expander mandrel. I have played around with other stuff but I can't tell the difference at the range and I am mostly building hunting rounds that must chamber in the field without exception, so I full length resize aiming to push the shoulder back .0015"

Ok, so your bushing die is resizing the casing, obtaining your shoulder bump, as well as setting neck tension. Do you run a mandrel through the casing AFTER the bushing die?

Also, how to you obtain your proper neck tension? Say you want 2k neck tension. Do you set the bushing on the die to the correct bushing to obtain the 2k neck tension, then run a mandrel through that would also achieve 2k neck tension to "iron out" any ID inconsistencies?

 

[Rick Richard]

Ok, so your bushing die is resizing the casing, obtaining your shoulder bump, as well as setting neck tension. Do you run a mandrel through the casing AFTER the bushing die?

Also, how to you obtain your proper neck tension? Say you want 2k neck tension. Do you set the bushing on the die to the correct bushing to obtain the 2k neck tension, then run a mandrel through that would also achieve 2k neck tension to "iron out" any ID inconsistencies?

Size die with bushing that is .002 smaller of the neck OD of a loaded round. No mandrel needed afterwards.

 

[RegionRat]

So, this is a dedicated hunting rig. I would like to mess around at longer ranges on targets, but nothing that is a sanctioned event or competition.

As of now, I don't believe I would benefit from turning necks.

I keep leaning toward the body die/neck collet die option, but like to hear other options that may serve me better.

If possible, you should try all of the methods to learn which ones help with different issues.

I agree that neck turning for a sporting chamber isn't high value. If you stick with good quality brass, you will do fine with no-turn methods and most light hunting rifles can't shoot the difference anyway.

With bushings or regular dies, you must decide on how much you will size down, and then up with the mandrels. There is no rule or standard in terms of how far to go down before you push back up with a mandrel. The only thing for certain is the more you move brass back and forth, the more you will cold work and harden the necks. Annealing can be considered.

The Lee Collet Die with Body Sizing is a very popular method, and for good reasons.

With the Lee Collet Die, you don't over work the brass, but to have complete control over the neck tension in the end, you may need to consider having alternate mandrels at the ready. Lee offers some and they also used to offer a grind service. Many of us used to just make our own.

The only other advice I will give you, is to try to keep perspective on how far down the rabbit hole you try to go with a hunting rig with respect to using sophisticated methods that are usually found in Match Rifle and BR shooting.

The dominant effect on a light carry rig is from recoil and if that isn't mastered it puts everything else in the noise, thus wasting all that other effort.

Good Luck and have fun.

 

[Troutslayer2]

The only other advice I will give you, is to try to keep perspective on how far down the rabbit hole you try to go with a hunting rig with respect to using sophisticated methods that are usually found in Match Rifle and BR shooting.

This right here is good advice. Start small and simple. You can produce incredibly precise ammo with basic equipment.