Berger vs ELDX on steel

[haftime]

Shooting 7PRC with a buddy at his homemade steel target and noticed his Bergers cut neat holes thru the steel (640 yds) while my ELDX barely dented it. At 900 yds the Bergers dented the steel and the ELDX just smeared. Not a large velocity difference and bullet mass was close. Is there something in the bullet construction that causes this? Thanks

 

[Roughrice]

I saw the same thing with my buddy shooting 153 grain Berger in 6.5 PRC and I was shooting 140 ELDM out of 6.5-284.
His Bergers punched a couple of holes thru at 600 on 1/2" mild steel plate and the 140 Eldm put good dents and was 40-50 fps faster.
I'm guessing sectional density is a big reason.

 

[Doom2]

The ELD-X is a hunting bullet designed to expand at lower velocities. It tends to penetrate less as the energy goes to expanding the bullet as it transfers to the steel. You didn't say what Berger bullet he was shooting but I suspect it was a Target bullet which is usually a harder lead compound and probably a thicker jacket.

 

[sea2summit]

Burger makes a lot of different types of bullet to include solids…kind of need more info. Also, homemade target made out of what kind of steel? If rifle rounds are penetrating at over 600 it must be pretty soft and thin.

 

[haftime]

The ELD-X is a hunting bullet designed to expand at lower velocities. It tends to penetrate less as the energy goes to expanding the bullet as it transfers to the steel. You didn't say what Berger bullet he was shooting but I suspect it was a Target bullet which is usually a harder lead compound and probably a thicker jacket.

Thanks

 

[haftime]

Burger makes a lot of different types of bullet to include solids…kind of need more info. Also, homemade target made out of what kind of steel? If rifle rounds are penetrating at over 600 it must be pretty soft and thin.

Yeah we know it was softer than AR steel, still 3/8" but I was hoping for an answer directed towards bullet construction. Not a solid, it was a VLD hunting bullet.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I've shot through 3/8" AR500 steel @ 200 yards with a 257 Wby and 115 VLDH @ 3600fps MV.

 

[CaneBrake]

I'm an engineer by trade but I don't have a lot of info on your setups. I'd say tip design is a big factor. You have a plastic tip where as his tip is copper. Essentially, your bullet is striking the target and is being slowed down and prematurely expanded by the plastic tip as it crushes against the plate. By the time your tip has collapsed to reach the jacket your bullet has a decent sized surface area upon which its energy is transferred into the plate. His bullet has a solid tip and a much smaller surface area when striking the plate. That's the key to defeating armor, steel, etc. You need the necessary energy behind a high density, hard material that is adequately focused in order to penetrate. Copper is hardly a good material for armor penetration but in this case it's penetrating mild steel with a very high velocity and a decent amount of momentum. That's why M855 is very good at penetrating lower grades of armor. It's very fast, and has a fine point on a solid jacket with a steel core.

 

[338 dude]

Yeah we know it was softer than AR steel, still 3/8" but I was hoping for an answer directed towards bullet construction. Not a solid, it was a VLD hunting bullet.

Berger 140 VLDH from my 6.5x284 norma at 500 yards on a 1 inch thick mild steel plate. 2980 fps

 

[snox801]

I've shot through 3/8" AR500 steel @ 200 yards with a 257 Wby and 115 VLDH @ 3600fps MV.
View attachment 509031

Yep, speed does it on ar plating I blow right through 3/8 at 200 yards with the nosler 115 in my bee.

 

[Longrangers]

We were shooting at a steel plate at 700 yds one day. My son was shooting a 6 dasher with 105 grain Berger vld hunting bullets and my cousin was shooting a 7 mag with 150 nosler ballistic tips if I remember correctly. He couldn't believe what he saw. His ballistic tip would hit the steel plate and just make a grey spot and my kids 105 Berger was cratering the steel plate pretty good.

 

[cohunt]

Have you done calculations to see what the speed at the target was with both bullets? My 7 mag punches holes in 1/2 are plate at 250 yards just because of the speed.
Speed kills when it cones to shooting steel

 

[MOBE]

I'm an engineer by trade but I don't have a lot of info on your setups. I'd say tip design is a big factor. You have a plastic tip where as his tip is copper. Essentially, your bullet is striking the target and is being slowed down and prematurely expanded by the plastic tip as it crushes against the plate. By the time your tip has collapsed to reach the jacket your bullet has a decent sized surface area upon which its energy is transferred into the plate. His bullet has a solid tip and a much smaller surface area when striking the plate. That's the key to defeating armor, steel, etc. You need the necessary energy behind a high density, hard material that is adequately focused in order to penetrate. Copper is hardly a good material for armor penetration but in this case it's penetrating mild steel with a very high velocity and a decent amount of momentum. That's why M855 is very good at penetrating lower grades of armor. It's very fast, and has a fine point on a solid jacket with a steel core.

I like this guy!!

 

[TonyRumore]

Yep, speed does it on ar plating I blow right through 3/8 at 200 yards with the nosler 115 in my bee.

It's not just speed if you were shooting Accubonds. Those things punch AR500 better than anything else I have shot. I haven't used bergers though. My 3/8" AR500 plate stopped everything I shot at it from a 240 Weatherby, until I lit it up with the Accubonds.

Tony