Berger 230gr Hybrid .308 Question

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by TonyQ, May 6, 2015.

  1. TonyQ

    TonyQ Well-Known Member

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    Hello I am have my 300 weatherby mark V accumark rebarreled with a 30 fished Hart barrel. I am ordering the reamer from PT&G and it's there "Bore Rider" version like Shawn +P. They have there lands at 3.6044. I used to just load from the tip of the bullet but now I have a comparator so I can measure the ogive. The longest I can load the bullet is 3.75 because of the receiver and being able to eject the bullet without having to remove the bolt. Now when I measure the bullet to Ogive (when the coal is 3.75 to tip of bullet) it give me a length of 2.860. I thought you meassured how you want to jump the bullet you messure from the Ogive to the lands and not the tip of the bullet. So if i left it as is in the reamer print it would give me a jump of .744 and that would be a ton of freeborn. Should i have them change the reamer or am I doing the measurements wrong. here is a copy or the reamer print Thanks for the Help Anthony.
     

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  2. barefooter56

    barefooter56 Well-Known Member

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    TonyQ,
    If the longest round you can load and run through your magazine is 3.75". Where is the base of the bullet in the cartridge case? Above the case shoulder?, middle of shoulder? bottom of shoulder?
     
  3. TonyQ

    TonyQ Well-Known Member

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    I longest is 3.75 because of the receiver opening. I could have it milled to run a longer coal but I want to try no to do that.
    Coal
    [​IMG]
    CBTO
    [​IMG]
    About where the bullet would be at that length
    [​IMG]
     
  4. barefooter56

    barefooter56 Well-Known Member

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    TonyQ,
    Depending on what your load ends up being . That's a lot of bullet down in the case body. I am not familiar with the "bore rider" throats affect on pressure. You may want to contact Dave Kiff at PT&G on this. The long throat may be due to pressure concern's because of the design. Which Berger bullet is that?
     
  5. barefooter56

    barefooter56 Well-Known Member

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    230 Hybrid. Pays to read over. The Hybrids are very tolerant of jump so distance off the lands MAY not be an issue. Check with Dave though as mentioned in last post
     
  6. TonyQ

    TonyQ Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for taking a look at it. I put a call in to Dave I am just waiting hear back from him. Where is the base of the bullet recommend to be at in the cartridge case
     
  7. barefooter56

    barefooter56 Well-Known Member

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    If I am setting up a dummy round for a target rifle the base of the bullet is about in the middle of the shoulder. Since this is a hunting rifle and you don't want to modify the stock we have to go with what works through your magazine as is. Most target rifles are single shot so there is more flexibility in seating depth. Rifles that are magazine fed are a different animal. Let us know what Dave says. I have heard of the bore rider throat being used in benchrest and target rifles but not hunting. Thanks !
     
  8. jsthntn247

    jsthntn247 Well-Known Member

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    I load them out longer and shoot the gun as a single shot.
     
  9. barefooter56

    barefooter56 Well-Known Member

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    Good deal! Lots more flexibility for load testing then! Let us know here if you need any more help as you go along. Good luck and good shooting!
     
  10. TonyQ

    TonyQ Well-Known Member

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    I have not heard back from Dave yet but I talked to my gun smith and he is going to mill the receiver so I can run a bullet up to 4.00 coal. I still need to have the lands changed because I made a dummy round and at 3.980 coal has a CBTO of 3.085 and that gives me a .519 jump that is still to long for me. When I hear from Dave I will post what he says. Thanks Anthony.
     
  11. jsthntn247

    jsthntn247 Well-Known Member

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    If the Dave you are referring to is Dave Kiff, you might here from the Easter Bunny and Sante Clause before you get something out of PTG. My buddy is a gunsmith and one of his clients waited 5 months on a custom ground reamer from them for his target .284. Smith chambers the barrel and the throat was cut over .100 longer than the reamer print. Now the fella that waited 5 months on the reamer and 6 months on the barrel has a DILEMMA, because he will get nothing from PTG. Actually they will probably want to charge him an extra 20% restocking fee for sending the reamer back. The bullets he wants to use (.180 hybrids) are only .040 in the neck when touching the lands.
     
  12. barefooter56

    barefooter56 Well-Known Member

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    Suggest you go to the "reloading forum" on 6MM BR .COM(ACCURATE SHOOTER) page 2 of posts to see whats up with Dave and how he does his answers.
     
  13. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

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    jsthntn247,

    There is something wrong with your story. I think your friend is being handed a line from his gunsmith.

    Their comment on not being able to talk to Dave Kiff is not true. I have talked to him on many occasions regarding some finalized dimensions for a reamer. He IS accessible. If he is busy I leave a number and he calls me back.

    Was it the gunsmith that said he cannot be reached or your friend? Who ordered and owns the 284 reamer? Perhaps the gunsmith didn't get things ordered in a timely manner and blamed PT&G.

    My friend and I own 19 reamers made by PT&G. Dan or I talked to Dave about every reamer. Also talked to him on other occasions when I had detailed questions on a product or procedure.

    There were occasions where I had to wait up to 6 weeks to get a reamer sometimes a bit longer. Five months seems excessive.


    The 284 reamer in question can be sent back to be reground. If they made a mistake it should be free. Who made the mistake? I always send in a dummy round with a seated bullet with specific instructions on where I want the throat. I NEVER rely on dimensions alone.

    The wait time for shortening the throat would not take as long as ordering a new reamer.
    Who owns the reamer? If your friend owns the reamer and wants to get the reamer dimensions corrected HE should be calling PT&G. He doesn't have to talk to Dave to get things corrected. Worst case would be a small payment for regrinding the throat. I had this done once and it cost $25.

    Sounds like the gunsmith made a mistake too. He never asked for a reamer print to accompany the reamer. He should have checked the dimensions before he used it.

    TonyQ,

    Call PT&G again. I have found if I call when they first open I can usually get Dave on the phone. There are other people who can answer your question too. You might want to send them a dummy with the seating depth you will use with your new lengthened mag box. Dan and I ordered a 257 Weatherby reamer with a shorter throat. after discussing it with Dave we ended up with a .100" jump to lands in stead of the usual Weatherby version.

    Ross
     
  14. jsthntn247

    jsthntn247 Well-Known Member

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    AZ, you undoubtedly already had and answer in mind when skimming over my post and didn't try to understand it. My buddy is the smith. The customer ordered the reamer and was given a 4-6 week lead time. Card was immediately charged and reamer came in after numerous calls and 5 months later. Customer takes reamer, barrel, and bat action to my buddy (the smith) and says he wants a barrel chambered with this reamer. My buddy ( the gunsmith) chambers the barrel with and sets headspace to .002. Takes a .284 case and checks for throat and finds the reamers maker must have been Jenna Jameson or blind. Calls customer and says will you bring print to me we have a problem. Reamer has .318 FB on the side of it in black letters and Reamer Print has .215 FB written on it. Please tell me how a gunsmith could chamber a barrel with a reamer and get the throat off .100 and not the headspace or any other dimension, oh and just by some random chance 2 different dimensions were written on the reamer and print. This happened this past Saturday. When he built my rig, he ordered the reamer and a bolt face(savage) for me. Since it came to his shop he had the reamer and print. They sent the wrong reamer once and the wrong bolt face 3x. Yes that's right, 3 times, first they sent a .308 bolt face then they sent a .223 bolt face with a .072 firing pin hole in it, then they finally sent the right .223 bolt face but it was for a long action and not a short action. PTG used to be very good, I've even talked to Dave a few times but not in the last 1.5 years because he won't return phone calls or answer emails and the women in the front know as much about guns and I do underwater basket weaving.