midnightmalloy
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Awesome. Do you have any pictures of how the bullets performed?
Berger 195's failing?
- Thread starter WeiserBucks
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Awesome. Do you have any pictures of how the bullets performed?
Just cut
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No sorry. So far I have gotten a pass through on everything except for a big buck that was 200 yards. He was quartering to me so I shot him in the shoulder, I looked for the bullet when skinning him but it had come apart and I found about 5 tiny pieces on the off side. I was a little concerned at first because the exits have been have been small but after skinning them everything is jello inside, and they all have dropped in their tracks.
longshot406
Active Member
I caught this thread late but will respond to a few things. Curling match had me on the edge of my seat! The 195's in question that my brother loonie was referring to are lot #8774. Samples were sent to Berger for testing which I thought would mean actual shooting in gelatin, or testing hardness, jacket thickness? Their response was bullets tested dimensionally perfect and we're fine. Hmmm...Failed to see what that had to do with them performing on game but was told often different lots will perform differently so they offered to replace them The last cow at only 460 i shot in the pocket on her left side with no reaction or bullet smack. My friend tipped over a small bull that was in the bunch while I kept my crosshairs on her. Several minutes later she was still acting pretty normal so I put another one in her, this time behind her shoulder on her right side. Again no reaction or bullet report! She left a small spot of blood in the snow where she jumped out of her bed then ran across a lot of wide open space covering a lot of ground to never be seen again! I also have digiscope video of a long range doe and bear, bullet appearing to impact high shoulder on both and neither left blood trails and we're not recovered.Dogs were used to track the bear thinking it was just a recovery of a dead bear but not the case. These bullets don't seem to expand and are only pinholing so I am cleaning all my tips and was going to try even chamfering/deburring the mouths slightly. I'm making it a habit of thoroughly cleaning the tips on all my Bergers for what it's worth. They are extremely accurate for ELR but for hunting will substitute them for the 180eld-m which worked very well with my .300ish FB but are not as accurate. I am shooting them at over 3000fps from a 7-27 wsm. Trying to build an Edge but if I shoot the 300 elite hunters sounds like that might not solve my problem?
WeiserBucks
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I've been looking into the Montour County Rifles meplat uniformer , by the looks of the finished meplat I'm thinking it would definitely help initiate expansion. Any thoughts?
I've been doing that for at least 5yrs now with Bergers in .338, .308, and .284 calibers. Yes it will help. Never had one fail to expand provided they were meplat uniformed and then countersunk with Kevin's tool.
But I'm still moving on to a better bullet. Better for my own needs, use, and preference. Better for me. That's not to say the Berger won't be better for others.
longshot406
Active Member
That's the tool that I have and was thinking the same thing Would lose some BC but don't care for hunting. I've heard annealing mentioned to soften the front but not sure I would want to go there!
Autorotate19
Well-Known Member
I know its not the 195 Berger but here's a bullet I recovered from the bull I killed this last year. 180gr Berger VLD Hunting out out of a 7mm Rem mag at 840 yards. High shoulder shot.
I have killed lots of big game with both the 180 Vld and Hybrids and always had good results.
I have killed lots of big game with both the 180 Vld and Hybrids and always had good results.
Alex Wheeler
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What is your opinion on the 180 hybrid vs the 180 vld?
Autorotate19
Well-Known Member
I didn't notice a difference between them on game. I have killed antelope at 640, mule deer at 980 and bull elk at 840 with the VLD's all died quickly. Killed a bull elk at 1,012 with the hybrids and same results. I have killed numerous elk and deer at close range anywhere from 0-300 yards with both and bullets performed great.
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Autorotate19
Well-Known Member
The only time I have seen a Berger pencil through was a buck a friend shot at 650 with a 6.5-284 shooting 140 gr VLD's. I told him to hold on the shoulder and he thought I said behind the shoulder and thats where he hit him. The buck took a few steps and laid down. We got within a couple hundred yards of him he still had his head up and he shot him again. Unless at close range I always go for shoulder shots.
This reminds me of the unpredictable performance of the B bullets. This 140gr VLD is the "one" bullet another extensive user claims is the bullet that never fails - kills elk deader than fence posts - with a single shot. He's seen 1000s of elk fall with a single shot. Simply hold up a box of the 140gr 6.5 B bullets, and the elk fall over dead from knowledge of certain death.
This is the bullet that now failed to expand thru the ribs. If my expanding bullet doesn't expand thru the ribs, it's a 100% failure from the bullet. Not even a 0.00000001% failure of my shot placement.
Wedgy
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I think a lot of guys are getting by with marginal stability and while it flies straight on paper, it won't expand reliably on game.
