Barnes Bullets, Are they missing the LR hunting boat?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Jluck, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. Jluck

    Jluck Well-Known Member

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    I can't help but wonder about Barnes bullets.... Beings copper weighs less than lead, Shouldn't it be very easy for them to make longer leaner bullets with ridiculous high BC numbers? I would love to hunt with a all copper bullets with BC numbers and similar trajectory as Berger accomplishes. What am I missing?

    Even there LRX line seems weak compared to others on the market, Maybe I obsess on the BC's too much.... I dunno.
     
  2. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    I love Barnes...They're good bullets. I shot them for years when they were factory loaded in Federal Premium ammo for my 7mm RM. But I do think that they are missing out by not improving their BC's for LR hunting.

    I think if Barnes took the Triple-Shock (HPBT) and re-shaped it and made it a little longer, but still solid copper, that would be one bad bullet.

    Plus, I REALLY want some 130gr Hybrid or VLD style bullets for my .25-06 AI and .257 Wby Mag... I think that would help bring the .25 calibers back into the whitetail game and increase popularity. I know it would make me more apt to bring one of my 1/4-bores into the woods just for fun, instead of always lugging "old faithful" my 7mm RM to the stand.

    Also, heavy high BC .257 caliber bullets would help them to compete with the 6.5 market, and help them to become a bit more popular. Especially since right now all the rage is the 6mm and 6.5mm rounds. That's directly on both sides of the .257 calibers. By increasing the .257's with long heavy hybrid bullets with high BC's we'd have just about every major player as a viable option for anyone and everyone who wants to enter the LR game.

    About the only to options that are being ostracized and ignored in the LR community are the .257's and 8mm (.323) calibers.

    I would love to see more LR capable bullets for those 2 calibers.
     
  3. Jud96

    Jud96 Well-Known Member

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    I wandered the same thing. Barnes has captured the solid copper market and they have a large following, including long range hunters and shooters. You would think they would take advantage of their solid coppers and make one heck of a high BC bullet. Their LRX series is not very impressive when it comes to BCs, they could really make it a lot better. I'm not real big on the Barnes slugs, but I would be willing to give them a try if their BCs were through the roof. Like the situation I have with Nosler, I'm not a big Nosler guy, but man would I like to try their 190 or 210gr LRAB, their claimed BCs are crazy high, if only they were in stock!
     
  4. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that the grooves in the Barnes bullets don't help the BC one bit, just like similar grooves and bumps don't help the airflow of your car at speed. So, they probably start with a bit of a disadvantage.

    Also, they probably don't want to exceed a certain length per bullet so that they can still sell each one to be loaded into factory ammo. The LR market is small, and since Barnes is owned by the Freedom group I doubt that they're after any niche markets.

    Having said that I will hop on board and say that I wish they made a better 257 TTSX. Their current offerings are much smaller than I'd like - a 110 or 115gr bullet would make me very happy.
     
  5. Jud96

    Jud96 Well-Known Member

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    Ya the grooves could be a reason. You would still think they would make a bullet just for components, I know the long range community is relatively small, but there are thousands Barnes guys that would use these and thousands more that would buy them to try them and they may get hooked on to them as well.
     
  6. Beng

    Beng Well-Known Member

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    BC=SD/i
    SD=bullet weight/7000*(caliber in inch)²
    Copper and copper alloys used for bullet production have a lower density than lead. Toreachthe same weight the bullet has to have more volume. Volume + aerodynamically efficient shape equals freakishly long bullets. This requires extra short cases or extra long magazine boxes to achieve the same velocity out of a given cartridge and rifle, also you need to use shorter twists than usually found in factory rifles.
    Barnes is a major manufacturer of mainly hunting bullets, the market for long range hunting bullets is rather small, for non lead lr hunting bullets even smaller.
    Working small markets is time intensive and the profits are often low. Focusing on big markets utilizing effects of scale and scope is usually much more profitable.
    Why should they waste time and money on these markets, when they are already swamped with orders for their standard range of products?
    Especially in obsolete calibers like .257 and 8mm.
     
  7. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    Maybe there isn't much 257 action in Germany but there are plenty of 257 Roberts and 257 Weatherby shooters here in the US who would appreciate a larger 257 caliber bullet.

    Thankfully Nosler makes some very nice bullets in the 257 caliber.
     
  8. Jluck

    Jluck Well-Known Member

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    And back to the regularly scheduled programming...

    I agree with the LR crowd being a minority for sure but it is up and coming with serious momentum. If I could make a product and cover R&D with a open arms consumer at the other end of the cash register I think I would do it, I do realize with the max capitol bean counter mentality this just might not work.The profit margins may not be as high on one product line but that doesn't always mean don't try... Other bullet manufacturers seem to be paying the bills and forwarding there LR bullet lines.

    With any luck maybe Barnes will see enough constructive threads like this or others will pick up the LR copper solids demand.
     
  9. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Lets not also forget the .25-06 AI shooters... :D

    I like my .257 Wby, but I have really grown to love my .25-06 AI.
     
  10. TXAoudadKlr

    TXAoudadKlr Well-Known Member

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    If barnes brought back the MRX the one with the (tungsten?) core I believe and did a few revisions on it to boost b.c that would probably be the best way to do it so you don't end up with freakishly long bullets and still a lead free bullet.

    I have a box of the 30cal 200gr LRX bullets and a box of 30cal 240SMK the LRX is just as long as the SMK but 40 grains lighter.

    To the OP, Yes barnes is missing out, they could have been a little more aggressive in the design and shape of the LRX
     
  11. Swamplord

    Swamplord Well-Known Member

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    the 180 gr MRX is/was the perfect bullet for the 300 WSM ! not overly long and loaded to Tikka T3 magazine length was instantaneous DRT on moose, I was lucky to score 200 bullets before they were discontinued !

    If Barnes could incorporate the MRX Silvex core and the LRX 30 cal into a 220 gr bullet with a bc at .700 they would have a major contender in the long range market......

    also a 6.5mm 165 gr MRX/LRX with .700 bc would be extremely nice, especially with the 26 Nosler gaining a large following !
     
  12. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    Do you want some more 180's? I was using them in my Lazz Patriot but have since jumped ship after they were discontinued....

    A 165grn 6.5 Barnes would look like a 750grn 50cal A-Max. There is no factory twist on the planet that would stabilize that bullet. My 8.4" can't even stabilize the 140 CEB's, think about that.

    The grooves on the TSX/TTSX/MRX most definitely drop the BC, they gave some there to reduce fouling, I can live with that. By going above the current "conventional" weight bullets, we would all have to order custom made super fast twist barrels. As Beng pointed out, mono metal bullets have to be a LOT longer to achieve the same mass; being that long you will have stability issues.

    It sucks but it's the truth.


    t
     
  13. Michael Courtney

    Michael Courtney Silver Member

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    Barnes was on the leading edge of publishing more accurate BC numbers, and they have been publishing more accurate numbers since 2006 or so. This probably hurts their marketing some in the long range market. There are some other challenges with designing mass produced copper bullets to maintain both terminal performance and high BCs, and the grooves don't help either.

    Berger began measuring and publishing more accurate BC numbers somewhere around 2008.

    Hornady has published accurate BCs for new bullet lines introduced in the last decade or so, but I don't think they've published more accurate numbers for their older bullet lines.

    Sierra has always published accurate BCs for their bullets, and most variations are related to the gun they are fired from.

    Nosler BCs are inflated and overly optimistic. Analysis of the Litz measurements shows this, and our independent BC measurements show this also. Comparing a Nosler BC claim with a Barnes BC claim is unwise, because the Barnes BC is much more likely to be accurate than the Nosler BC claim.
     
  14. TXAoudadKlr

    TXAoudadKlr Well-Known Member

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    While it might no be perfect, I think a LRX with a silverx core would be better than the current LRX.

    Don't get me wrong I like the 200Gr LRX but I'd like it that much more if it was as long as a 240 smk and had a higher B.C than what it does. With the silverx core they could in fact go with a more aggressive design on the LRX with out making it longer than what it is currently depending on how heavy the core is. All in all its just wishful thinking.