Anyone able to get any 7mm Cartridge to 3300/160 or 3200/175gr?

[Phil Rizzo]

I'm told the old powder had more "pop" but I don't know if it had enough to duplicate a 7 RM with its larger exhaust pipe, and much larger case.

 

[cape cove]

Rev Jim, Just like you. As a Pre Teen and teen ager I remember reading Jack O Conners accounts of how he could shoot a 130 and 150 grn bullet, from his 270 Win. at speeds that closely approached the "New 7mm Rem mag " even suggested the velocities were so close a hunter didn't really need that new Rem. cartridge. I thought that was amazing. I hung on every word. I'm 75 now and I have still never been able to duplicate what Jack did. Especially getting OVER 60 grns of H 4831 in to a . 270 case. Gave up trying to do that trick ages ago. I sometimes wonder if Jacks' rifle chamber and cases might have been 'Improved" No disrespect meant to the Dean.

Same for me. My 270 Win couldn't come close to Jack's #'s at safe pressures. With 130 gr bullets I had trouble getting 3000 ft/sec.

 

[Carey Farmer]

I can push a 160 grain bullet to 3300+ with a 28 Nosler loaded with Retumbo, but that's with a 32" barrel.

I couldn't hit that speed with a 26" barrel. Maybe 3150. Nosler load data shows a 160 grain bullet will go 3275 fps with 84 grains of Retumbo and a 26 inch barrel, but that would be pretty hot for my family's rifles.

 

[Muledeerhuntingfreak]

As a young man I read Bob Hagel's exploits with his 7mm Mashburn Super Mag ( I think he claimed 3100/175?) . My best speed I could get my 24" Rem Mag to was 2950/160. Later in Life, I have tried 26" 7mm STW's, a 7mm RUM and a 26" Rem Mag. I was never able to get his storied speeds. I have read where both the 160 and 175 could actually be ran at these speeds, but how are they doing it? Are they exceeding the pressure limits? Now I read in a few places where a 24" barrel 28 Nosler ( a shortened RUM) has done 3300/160? How can this be? The ONLY reason I EVER wanted ANY 7mm Mag was for these speeds, ha. Not for LR Hunting but stretched string 400yds and big thump on big critters. I easily got 3200/210 XBT/340 Wby, but it was not 7mm! ha How did Uncle Bob do it? Opinions?

Best I could get with my 26 inch barrel was 2668, but with a quarter inch Moa, I'm not going to complain. With a 150 grain ELD h4831.speed isn't everything!!

 

[comfisherman]

Or, and I know that this borders on heretical.... but what if people haven't changed we are just more aware of it now. What if the gun writers then are the same mix if authentic and blow hard as the gun toobers of today....

Up the pressure to that node in the low 70s and viola.... there is your speed. We all know the rifle designs that we all still use handle it just fine and dandy. Sells some guns, and some magazines and honestly not enough folks are gonna notice to be able to vocalize the bull stool.

Every whiz bang wildcat touted as "more efficient" usually has going old pressure to thank. "More efficient" at hiding pressure signs from 60 year old brass formulations, so it was half right. Heck when the first 22 Creedmoor numbers came out, it was hanging with the truly big bore wildcats.... you know cause of "efficiency". Eventually someone worked up loads with a pressure sensor.... wouldn't you know it those speeds were like a fast twist hot 22-250 ai... It's still a neat hot little cartridge, but it's not gonna hang with the 22 redline without more psi.

In pre doppler days my old chronograph would sometimes post some faster speeds. I've also stacked enough barrels to know some are faster than the others. Being even well intentioned, some numbers are hard to duplicate with the masses.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Impressive Uncle Lance! What was your best powder with the 160 and 175gr bullets?

There are several powders that work well in the 28N. These are what I have used.

For 180-195:
N570, N568, RL33, Retumbo, IMR8133

For >180:
N565, IMR8133, Retumbo, H1000

To be honest, I don't use a lot of bullets under 175gr in the 28N. In my opinion, that case was designed for the heavy 7s. And it shines with 180+.

 

[Bghunter338]

I'm getting over 3400 in my 27 Sherman mag with the 160s. I know it's not O'Connors but it Flat shots the heavy 270 bullets well.

 

[Bill28]

I've got a buddy with a 28 Nosler and with 195's hes only getting a bit over 2800 before it gets pressure. I thought it would be faster. Maybe just a slow barrel

I wasn't able too get the 195's to shoot in 5 different 28N's , however it was pretty easy to get all 5 to shoot the 180's and over 3150 velocity with 2 going over 3300. Always had a very accurate load before any pressure signs.

 

[RevJim]

"With the 160-175" it seems these Big 7's are just not that much faster than a 26" 7mm RM are they? I mean if one is a "normal hunting range" hunter, shots usually under 350yd, are they? Most elk killed around here are 200yds and way under, often less than 100yds. Any magnum is "usually" a bit heavier and slower to bring into use at those ranges, especially for fast shots, I know these big guns are fascinating, and the right tool for "way out there". I always have the use of my Marine SIL's Mod 700 300 RUM/200 NAB and 6.5x20 Huskemaw scope, 26" barrel, brake, Shilen trigger and a Boyds Laminate stock I had slimmed/trimmed down and checkered. I gave him the bare rifle as a "welcome home" from his second tour in Iraq, 2006. )I am a great father in Law!) ha He put the Huskemaw on it. He later used that rifle with my handloads for a bit over 440 yds pn a cow. BUT, he and his friend had to wade through knee deep snow and 400yds of Oakbrush to get to her! Oh no sir, not me! ha I have had the pleasure of setting up, shooting 300s, 300 RUMS, all kinds of 7 Mags, and a 338wms and one 340 WM. One of the best mountain elk rifles I had was the Rem 700 BDL SS in 375 H&H, factory irons. Remember those? Remington used a lighter barrel contour and with a 2.5x8 was a joy to hunt with! I gave that rifle to a young man for his first trip to Africa. ) I called him a Sissy for having a brake put on it, ha)

 

[RH300UM]

"With the 160-175" it seems they are just not that much faster than a 26" 7mm RM are they? I mean if one is a "normal hunting range" hunter, shots usually under 350yd, are they? Most elk killed around here are 200yds and way under, often less than 100yds. Any magnum is "usually" a bit heavier and slower to bring into use at those ranges, especially for fast shots, I know these big guns are fascinating, and the right tool for "way out there". I always have the use of my Marine SIL's Mod 700 300 RUM/200 NAB and 6.5x20 Huskemaw scope, 26" barrel, brake, Shilen trigger and a Boyds Laminate stock I had slimmed/trimmed down and checkered. I gave him the bare rifle as a "welcome home" from his second tour in Iraq, 2006. )I am a great father in Law!) ha He put the Huskemaw on it. He later used that rifle with my handloads for a bit over 440 yds pn a cow. BUT, he and his friend had to wade through knee deep snow and 400yds of Oakbrush to get to her! Oh no sir, not me! ha

A lot of my elk shots are between 800-1200 yards. My last deer was 1336 yards. (338 edge in 2008) so it's a need to have a long range rig with a bullet/cartridge capable of the job.

 

[K.E.C.]

7STW or 7RUM will do it fairly easily. My own 7STW has a 26" barrel and I got 3250fps without pushing 175g ABLR, the 168g ABLR was above 3300fps with one powder (Retumbo).

Cheers.

Yes 7 Rum is right there and more with N-570.

 

[RevJim]

My goodness Mr RH300! That is definitely "Long Range" (notice how I capitalized the words? ha) How do you judge the wind out like that? I am very poor at it myself. I have been lucky enough that the longest shots I have made on a handful of game is 400yds; but the wind was not blowing at any of them, from Texas, to Utah to Namibia. But a hunt near Laramie, WY for antelope in '94 out on those "short grass prairies" ( I call them) it was horrible! That wind blew me and my light little Mod 700 Mountain Rifle all around, ha, I knew a heavier rifle would have been a better choice. So there's that also. I admire you guys that do it right, you are indeed a "Rifleman".!

 

[RH300UM]

My goodness Mr RH300! That is definitely "Long Range" (notice how I capitalized the words? ha) How do you judge the wind out like that? I am very poor at it myself. I have been lucky enough that the longest shots I have made on a handful of game is 400yds; but the wind was not blowing at any of them, from Texas, to Utah to Namibia. But a hunt near Laramie, WY for antelope in '94 out on those "short grass prairies" ( I call them) it was horrible! That wind blew me and my light little Mod 700 Mountain Rifle all around, ha, I knew a heavier rifle would have been a better choice. So there's that also. I admire you guys that do it right, you are indeed a "Rifleman".!

There's been a large majority of shots that have been passed on because of wind issues.
Most shots are at first light before the sun breaks over the tops and starts the thermal winds.

 

[RevJim]

That makes perfect sense. One of my reasons for not getting into the LR game is my past experience in the Army. (plus I haven't carried a rucksack since Boot Camp! Hate...hate) Not a Back Packer! I was in artillery and I was placed in Fire Direction Control. This was '72 so everything was Trigonometry, Sin/Cos, a big slide rule for each (7) powder charge ( 8" howitzers) and lots of "Computing, plus breaking weather conditions from the weather group, sent in code every 30 mins for a "variable", temp, humidity, wind, etc. We shot thousands of fire missions, ha. You had 2 mins to work up a fire mission and get it to the guns, nerve wracking! I felt like I had worn all my grey matter down to the "white meat", and I just didn't want to do it anymore. Plus, I grew up in the Big Thicket of East Texas, it took me 20 yrs to even get a shot at 276yds! (on a pipeline) My average shot was 50yds! When I came out west ('90) the distance intimidated me, big time. So I just adjusted the way and where I hunted. I like the edges of dark timber and aspens. I get on a game trail and slip along. I naturally like my rifles slim, trim and light, like an E. Tx whitetail rifle! Last few years, I have just went on cow elk hunts on private ranches. At 71 and bolted together ( neck, both knees, left hip, right wrist bone), I like the help and companionship "and they load up the cow in the pickup", ha I have never seen a legal bull when I had a Tag either! So all my elk have been cows, I don't even bull hunt anymore.