Doublezranch
Well-Known Member
Is Jeff (Broz) still a part of the ELR shoot in Townsend?
Any here using Bertram brass.
- Thread starter WildBillG
- Start date
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ar10ar15man
Well-Known Member
yeah but i said GROUP AND SCORE targets, not large steel plates.
ar10ar15man
Well-Known Member
i think accurate shooter has a list of shooters from last year.
i am really bad with names
i am really bad with names
I never said large steel plates either.
ar10ar15man
Well-Known Member
I've used Betram brass in both of my 338/408 Improved guns with excellent results.
I don't waste my time sorting cases, measuring case capacity or worrying about having uniform grain structure in each individual case. I load them up, shoot them and see how they look on target. I'm not seeing any catastrophic outliers in the groups, bullets aren't dropping out of the sky because the case capacity is off by 1%, I don't think any critter I shoot at would know if my primer pockets weren't all perfectly concentric and I'm pretty sure every shot fired from both guns has been minute of elk out to as far as I'd personally be comfortable shooting an elk.
If I were trying to shoot bench rest I might look at other brass options but for a hunting or recreational shooting gun I haven't seen a difference. I tend to just use what works best for me though. I used Winchester brass in my Savage 22-250 when I shot local short range BR matches for fun and everybody told me it was trash brass. I guess nobody told the rifle that though because it shot an awful lot of 5 shot aggs in the .2's.
I don't waste my time sorting cases, measuring case capacity or worrying about having uniform grain structure in each individual case. I load them up, shoot them and see how they look on target. I'm not seeing any catastrophic outliers in the groups, bullets aren't dropping out of the sky because the case capacity is off by 1%, I don't think any critter I shoot at would know if my primer pockets weren't all perfectly concentric and I'm pretty sure every shot fired from both guns has been minute of elk out to as far as I'd personally be comfortable shooting an elk.
If I were trying to shoot bench rest I might look at other brass options but for a hunting or recreational shooting gun I haven't seen a difference. I tend to just use what works best for me though. I used Winchester brass in my Savage 22-250 when I shot local short range BR matches for fun and everybody told me it was trash brass. I guess nobody told the rifle that though because it shot an awful lot of 5 shot aggs in the .2's.
I guess if we are getting really picky here AR10 why don't you tell us how tight the tolerances are on ADG brass. It almost sounds like you never have to touch that stuff which I would find hard to beleive. As all brass will need some prep work when you get it especially if you buy large quantity bulk brass.
And only a Grand Total of TWO matches shot at Townsend, MT to date. It's a brand new competition that just started last August. Belittling people who shoot steel is definitely not the way to get them to join your club. In fact you're ruining the Elite 2K Competition name.
Benchrest guys might think groups on paper after multiple sighter rounds to get on target is an accomplishment. And it is a good proving ground for "rifle and ammo" accuracy. And that's fine. To each their own.
Steel shooters believe a cold bore hit on a plate at ELR in a match is more impressive as it shows a shooters ability to know his weapon, load good ammo, make the right wind and elevation call based on the weather, and make that first shot count. And that's fine too.
Steel shooters aren't judging your groups on paper after taking all your warm up sighter rounds so dont judge them for shooting steel. Steel plate ELR matches were around long before you guys ever drummed up the idea to shoot groups at 2K. Remember that the E2K comp is the new kid on the block. Have respect for the different shooting styles and maybe more people will join your shoot. We all have something we can learn from one another.
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I just ordered some Bertram in 7 wsm and it has been impressive. I also have Norma in 300 wsm fire formed to my 7 mm and it is my best brass. I shot the bertram the other day and had a 5 shot string that had a ES of 6. I then shot basalt from 500 yards with both the norma and bertram. 4 out of my 5 shots with Bertram were in the same 2 inch crater and one shot was 4 inches right. Not bad, the norma shot all 5 in a 3 inch area. I'm impressed with the brass. It is half the cost of the Norma, and I don't have to fire form each round. Note the 6 es on the bertram was on first firing from my gun, I just full length sized it, worked the primer holes and necks and loaded it.
ar10ar15man
Well-Known Member
you should read before you belittle.
2 of the three classes are PRONE.
i'll have more respect for steel shooters when they can do it five shots in a row.
i have shot steel...just too old to do it now.
2 of the three classes are PRONE.
i'll have more respect for steel shooters when they can do it five shots in a row.
i have shot steel...just too old to do it now.
I've been shooting a long time now. Getting too old to be as steady as I was when I was a sniper in the military, a long long time ago. I still shoot today and enjoy the mornings spent shooting balls at 2 miles with my sons, one of which at 16 is getting much better than I am, he has far better eyes than I do. No matter how good you think you are, I matter how great you think your rifle is, there will always be someone better than you, they may have a nicer rifle, they may shoot better than you ever will with an old junk military weapon. I have seen it happen, on more than one occasion. My point being, we are all shooters, and if we want to preserve this sport, and the joy that goes with it, the last thing you want to do is tell a person you have never met, never shot next to, how you are superior to them in every way. I guarantee that as soon as you do, the sport will be ruined for them by you, or ruined for you when they embarrass you on the range.
