After re-barrel :: 2 shots close together and 1 shot further out

nksmfamjp

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Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
1,118
I’m no expert on this, but I would clean the gun thoroughly and then foul it with 3-4 shots.

Then shoot 10 shots at the Tikka torque spec whatever it is. Keep track of where each shot goes like you did. I’m guessing about 1:3 will have a flyer. Maybe the overall group 1.5” to 2.0”.

Then add 20% torque and repeat. This should net you some improvement. If not, the bedding is no good, I believe

Can Tikka stocks be bedded? If not, maybe a nice Bell & Carlson stock would get you going for not too much money.
 

Radman

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Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
204
Location
TN
Is it possible for a new barrel to be the cause of 2 shots being VERY close together and a third shot being 1/2" to 3/4" apart? The shot that is "out" can be the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd shot.

This is on a Tikka T3 Varmint in 22-250 Rem. Using the original, factory stock. It use to shoot amazingly well.
Replaced the barrel with a Rem Varmint contour, 1:12 twist. Had to reduce the breach end to 1.150" to better match Tikka action.
I was hoping to use close to the same load that worked well in the original barrel so I had the gunsmith cut the finished length to match original barrel.

Things I've tried:
1. Different charge weights (OCW type of test)
2. Different seating depth of bullet
3. Open up barrel channel a little more.
4. Inspect bedding area and then overall stock for any crack.
5. Use a different, known good, scope
6. Use a different scope mount, (to remove the rail). Used the Tikka Optiloc rings and another different scope.
7. Try a different bullet

Have any of you seen a new barrel be the cause of such behavior?

Thanks -- Todd
I think alot of good people have given you many good replies. I had one stainless barrel that ALWAYS walked as it heated up forming a big (?) "question mark" for the first 5 shots or so. Even the dealer who sold it said that it should NOT do that! (I got rid of it)
 

Brad7348

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Joined
Aug 5, 2013
Messages
81
Location
Dallas TX
If your bolt is binding when torqued to 45 in lbs then you need a new bedding job. A stress free bedding job should allow you to torque 55 +inch pounds with out any problems. I am not familar with Sako's so not sure what they spec.
Not super familiar with the stock/action combo but I have run into this with a rem 700 and an aftermarket stock. The stock action screw in the front of the action was just a hair too long and when fully tightened would contact the side of the bolt lug making it difficult to close. I figured it out when I saw a light rub mark on the side of the lug. A small washer under the head or a quick shave to the screw length solved it.
 

emp1953

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Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
266
Is it possible for a new barrel to be the cause of 2 shots being VERY close together and a third shot being 1/2" to 3/4" apart? The shot that is "out" can be the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd shot.

This is on a Tikka T3 Varmint in 22-250 Rem. Using the original, factory stock. It use to shoot amazingly well.
Replaced the barrel with a Rem Varmint contour, 1:12 twist. Had to reduce the breach end to 1.150" to better match Tikka action.
I was hoping to use close to the same load that worked well in the original barrel so I had the gunsmith cut the finished length to match original barrel.
Has thee been any mention as to what range(distance) this occurs at?
 

ShtrRdy

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Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
3,431
Location
High Plains
I appreciate all the suggestions from everyone. This thread will be a good reference for others. But I'm asking one simple question - has anyone experienced a barrel the was responcible for a 2-plus-1 pattern. Maybe the answer is "no".
 

Deviant

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
540
Location
Nebraska
Is it possible for a new barrel to be the cause of 2 shots being VERY close together and a third shot being 1/2" to 3/4" apart? The shot that is "out" can be the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd shot.

This is on a Tikka T3 Varmint in 22-250 Rem. Using the original, factory stock. It use to shoot amazingly well.
Replaced the barrel with a Rem Varmint contour, 1:12 twist. Had to reduce the breach end to 1.150" to better match Tikka action.
I was hoping to use close to the same load that worked well in the original barrel so I had the gunsmith cut the finished length to match original barrel.

Things I've tried:
1. Different charge weights (OCW type of test)
2. Different seating depth of bullet
3. Open up barrel channel a little more.
4. Inspect bedding area and then overall stock for any crack.
5. Use a different, known good, scope
6. Use a different scope mount, (to remove the rail). Used the Tikka Optiloc rings and another different scope.
7. Try a different bullet

Have any of you seen a new barrel be the cause of such behavior?

Thanks -- Todd
You may have already addressed this but I had this happen and I had to play with the torque of my action screws until I found the sweet spot but my flier was always the first shot fired so maybe not the same issue.
 

Doozy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
81
Location
Colorado Springs
Is it possible for a new barrel to be the cause of 2 shots being VERY close together and a third shot being 1/2" to 3/4" apart? The shot that is "out" can be the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd shot.

This is on a Tikka T3 Varmint in 22-250 Rem. Using the original, factory stock. It use to shoot amazingly well.
Replaced the barrel with a Rem Varmint contour, 1:12 twist. Had to reduce the breach end to 1.150" to better match Tikka action.
I was hoping to use close to the same load that worked well in the original barrel so I had the gunsmith cut the finished length to match original barrel.

Things I've tried:
1. Different charge weights (OCW type of test)
2. Different seating depth of bullet
3. Open up barrel channel a little more.
4. Inspect bedding area and then overall stock for any crack.
5. Use a different, known good, scope
6. Use a different scope mount, (to remove the rail). Used the Tikka Optiloc rings and another different scope.
7. Try a different bullet

Have any of you seen a new barrel be the cause of such behavior?

Thanks -- Todd
I'm having this exact issue. In fact, the way I described it to my friends is "about 2 out of every three shots I'm really pleased with, but the other one is off and not grouping according to any pattern."

Although I haven't finished troubleshooting, I was told that my Triggertech trigger was literally touching the bottom Metal, which I was told may affect accuracy somehow.

I'll be interested to read more replies here.
 

nksmfamjp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
1,118
I appreciate all the suggestions from everyone. This thread will be a good reference for others. But I'm asking one simple question - has anyone experienced a barrel the was responcible for a 2-plus-1 pattern. Maybe the answer is "no".
Yes....I blindly turned up the torque and it stopped.

It was a Savage 12 in an MDT LSSXL Chassis. Rock Creek nut barrel.
 

Gunnuts

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Messages
21
Is it possible for a new barrel to be the cause of 2 shots being VERY close together and a third shot being 1/2" to 3/4" apart? The shot that is "out" can be the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd shot.

This is on a Tikka T3 Varmint in 22-250 Rem. Using the original, factory stock. It use to shoot amazingly well.
Replaced the barrel with a Rem Varmint contour, 1:12 twist. Had to reduce the breach end to 1.150" to better match Tikka action.
I was hoping to use close to the same load that worked well in the original barrel so I had the gunsmith cut the finished length to match original barrel.

Things I've tried:
1. Different charge weights (OCW type of test)
2. Different seating depth of bullet
3. Open up barrel channel a little more.
4. Inspect bedding area and then overall stock for any crack.
5. Use a different, known good, scope
6. Use a different scope mount, (to remove the rail). Used the Tikka Optiloc rings and another different scope.
7. Try a different bullet

Have any of you seen a new barrel be the cause of such behavior?

Thanks -- Todd
Have you tried someone else shooting it?
 

mikemo4032

Active Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Messages
43
I appreciate all the suggestions from everyone. This thread will be a good reference for others. But I'm asking one simple question - has anyone experienced a barrel the was responcible for a 2-plus-1 pattern. Maybe the answer is "no".
Yes. Exactly the same on a 6x47 match grade rifle. I removed the muzzle brake, the problem disappeared. Performed a deep clean on the brake, reinstalled and no more issues.
 

Jon Bischof

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2002
Messages
425
Location
Paragould, AR
I got similar groups from my Tikka T3 with original factory barrel. Tried many different bullets, weights and loads. Tried changing stock bedding. The only thing I didn't try was new crown. Rather than recrown, I found a different solution. Sold the Tikka and used the money to buy new Sauer 100 in same cartridge. Problem solved! Already killed deer with it after Christmas. Not Tikka bashing, just telling truth. I still have a Tikka rimfire that shoots good.
Some rifles you can improve, some you can't. It is up to you how much time and money you spend on the effort. For some that is the fun of it. But for me it is more about getting the results I want and can still afford with a good conscience. I really just want to see beautiful holes in still smoking conked out critters. Sometimes you need to know when to give up one effort in favor of another that will put smoking piles of meat on the ground 😁
 

7070yshot

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Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
100
Location
Liberty Hill, TX
Is it possible for a new barrel to be the cause of 2 shots being VERY close together and a third shot being 1/2" to 3/4" apart? The shot that is "out" can be the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd shot.

This is on a Tikka T3 Varmint in 22-250 Rem. Using the original, factory stock. It use to shoot amazingly well.
Replaced the barrel with a Rem Varmint contour, 1:12 twist. Had to reduce the breach end to 1.150" to better match Tikka action.
I was hoping to use close to the same load that worked well in the original barrel so I had the gunsmith cut the finished length to match original barrel.

Things I've tried:
1. Different charge weights (OCW type of test)
2. Different seating depth of bullet
3. Open up barrel channel a little more.
4. Inspect bedding area and then overall stock for any crack.
5. Use a different, known good, scope
6. Use a different scope mount, (to remove the rail). Used the Tikka Optiloc rings and another different scope.
7. Try a different bullet

Have any of you seen a new barrel be the cause of such behavior?

Thanks -- Todd
First, shoot larger strings. 3 shot strings are not enough. 5, 10, even 20 gives a true dispersion rate.

secondly, if this is a hunting rifle with the typical factory gun and light barrel, I would not expect more. Getting into trued and custom guns you can have that expectation.
If you are shooting 1 MOA you are fine. Bryan Litz cover this in several books as do others. Everyone wants the 1/2 MOA or 1/4 MOA Gun but maintaining that level of consistency from a factory gun is not realist IMO. They are good and can be very close to that given modern manufacturing but 3/4 to 1.25 MOA is fantastic for hunting within the calibers PBR.

I know some will criticize this and personal stories about this/than gun and my friends etc story but the reality is it’s not true.

All that being said you can improve a factory barrel by using the Tubb Final Finish bullets. This is called fire lapping and it works. Since you are a reloader this should be no problem.

lastly on many occasions I have found loads that are that 3/4 to 1.5 in group that was significantly improved by adjusting neck tension and then primer depth. All these things take time of course so it just depends on how much that extra 1/2 in is worth.
 

Brad7348

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2013
Messages
81
Location
Dallas TX
I had the exact same issue with a 22 Creedmoor. I changed everything on the rifle including the action with no change. I finally slowed down the load and all is well.
this was my thought too. It almost seems like inconstant bullet stabilization. 1/12 seems a bit slow for a 22 cal barrel but maybe that is needed in the 22-250 due to the velocity? Regardless, the 55gr pills may be approaching the maximum length for that twist. Have you tried a lighter bullet and a hair less charge? Also have you double checked the twist rate on the barrel to make sure it is what you ordered? The only other things that come to mind... It sounds like you are using the same stock you had before, but have you added anything to the forend or changed your rest set up? I have seen this happen before with a friend's rifle. He asked me to watch him shoot and I was able to quickly point out that he had added a sling stud on the front of his rifle that he didn't have before, and he was resting the sling stud against the bench rest about 50% of the time and it was causing the rifle to jump up on the bench rest at ignition. The bullet leaves the barrel so quick that it only made a small impact shift, but I had him push the rifle forward about 2" at setup so it would slide back freely without contact and it solved it. Another thing to consider is rifle cant. If your scope is mounted fairly high (maybe 2 or more inches scope center to center bore) a slight right or left tilt in the rifle orientation to the right or the left will cause the bullet impact to change some, especially in a high velocity round and even at 100 yards as at that range the bullet is still rising toward the center crosshair line of sight. Do you use a bubble level on your rifle?
 

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