Easy enough to figure out the energy is a direct correlation with The mass with projectile and the velocity at any particular range. Just stick the information in a ballistic app and determine what foot-pound energy is at any particular distance
ackley
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Easy enough to figure out the energy is a direct correlation with The mass with projectile and the velocity at any particular range. Just stick the information in a ballistic app and determine what foot-pound energy is at any particular distance
CatShooter
Well-Known Member
I was a gunsmith way back when (I'm older than dirt). At the time that Ackley made his improved, there were not many factory cartridges, and many were not loaded to their best
These days, there is little need for the Ackley's. A 7mm-08?? Get a 7mm Rem or a 280 "Anything".
Typical energy improvement is in the 4% to 6% increase, which no game animal or varmint will never feel the difference.
Plus the cost of custom dies, the headaches of head separations, cuz most gunsmiths can't get an Ackley chamber right, and they typically are too long, because most gunsmiths won't set the barrel back, and then the do, they still cut the chamber too long, cuz they think 0.004" is enough crush - it is not... and they cut the chamber with a standard No-Go gauge, and that is the way Ackley said to do it, because in those days, there were no Ackley gauges.
These days, getting an Ackley can be the beginning of a long string of headaches.
My early years I shot 6x284,6RemAI,6x250AI and I now shoot 243AI with 27" barrel. I also shoot 280AI (wildcat) 25.6" barrel,280AI SAAMI Spec with 27" barrel,35 WhelenAI 24" barrel and 222AI.
The 243AI, I'm using Lapua brass. I'm shooting Berger 95gr Classic and I'm over 1000 ft-lbs @ 500yds. I live 7700ft altitude here in Co and I run ballistic at 6000ft.
I use rifle on friends ranch shooting coyotes. One thing I've always done before do AI is shoot parent case. I have Kreiger barrel 243 and Brux barrel 222 and my spec 280AI was 280 same with 35 WhelenAI.
Me I do 6CM or 6.5CM unless you like fire forming brass.
I agree with you to many cartridges all for nothing but I guess there has always got to be a gimmick.
Asco6
Member
Here's something to consider: for the 5-8% improvement to be gained (5-8% muzzle energy, not linearly related to muzzle velocity) there is often more variability in rifles than that.
Consider the .280ai that shoots 200 FPS faster than the parent IN A CERTAIN RIFLE/ BARREL. That's a win.
I had a $2500 custom 243ai that wouldn't touch "standard" 243 velocity in a 22" barrel. It shot fine, just not fast.
I still own a $175 (bought new) mossberg youth .243 19" that shoots 95bt's. 3250fps.
Its never apples to apples due to barrel differences.
Consider the .280ai that shoots 200 FPS faster than the parent IN A CERTAIN RIFLE/ BARREL. That's a win.
I had a $2500 custom 243ai that wouldn't touch "standard" 243 velocity in a 22" barrel. It shot fine, just not fast.
I still own a $175 (bought new) mossberg youth .243 19" that shoots 95bt's. 3250fps.
Its never apples to apples due to barrel differences.
all the pros and cons of the above posts are true,but there are many reasons to adapt a case to another cartridge.
if you are a hunter or if you are a shooter.
for a hunter that may only shoot a couple of boxes a year, buy a factory gun to your liking and go hunting.
if you are a shooter as I am shooting 12 to 15 thousand of rounds a year now retired of 74 years old. Now building guns of calibers I don't have just because I don't have it.
With that said, fireforming should not be a problem, it usually takes around 100 rounds before a barrel comes around to peak performance.
as for accuracy goes take the 22 & 6 PPC if the gain was so little why didn't they leave it at 22 Russian.
take the 6 BR it was improved to the 6 BR ackley. which now holds the 1000 yard group record.
now as for dies, if you can't afford good dies and other good equipment. then you should stay with hunting.
a lot of my guns were either bought or built because I didn't have one.
i'am not a rich man by far, just living on my small pension.
just remember A MAN GOTTA DO WHAT A MAN GOTTA DO
if you are a hunter or if you are a shooter.
for a hunter that may only shoot a couple of boxes a year, buy a factory gun to your liking and go hunting.
if you are a shooter as I am shooting 12 to 15 thousand of rounds a year now retired of 74 years old. Now building guns of calibers I don't have just because I don't have it.
With that said, fireforming should not be a problem, it usually takes around 100 rounds before a barrel comes around to peak performance.
as for accuracy goes take the 22 & 6 PPC if the gain was so little why didn't they leave it at 22 Russian.
take the 6 BR it was improved to the 6 BR ackley. which now holds the 1000 yard group record.
now as for dies, if you can't afford good dies and other good equipment. then you should stay with hunting.
a lot of my guns were either bought or built because I didn't have one.
i'am not a rich man by far, just living on my small pension.
just remember A MAN GOTTA DO WHAT A MAN GOTTA DO
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I'm doing a 243 ai. I think their sexy and it addresses some inherent problems with the parent case. Get the information you need to make an informed decision and dont let anyone tell you your wrong.
MagMan
Well-Known Member
I agree. Love my Ackley's
I can't believe all the heartburn about fire forming. I shoot 6 and 7mm ai and use the same load to form that I shoot. It makes a compressed load, but all loads are compressed once the primer goes off. You may have to tap a little to make room. Once formed the load fills to the neck. 7mm ai seems pretty popular in our area. Mine cloverleaves at 150 the first load I developed from a #1 light sporter.
Have owned five 6mm-284s over the years. IMO nothing is a better 6mm if you want speed.
With so many of the newer cases using 30 degree shoulders and the Ackleys with 40 degree, the 35 degree shoulder 284 parent case was unique when it came out in 1963. Add a rebated rim and some very stout brass, it was way ahead of its time.
Easy to neck down 6.5-284 Lapua brass to 6mm. I own a Custom reamer. I use 24" Rem 243 takeoffs and rechamber them myself with no setback. When it burns out there are more barrels out there for little money.
Have also tried a 1 in 7.5 twist for 105 Bergers in a heavy Bartlein barrel.
Getting up to 4175 fps with 55 gr nosler ballistic tip and varget with 24" barrel.
With 95 gr Berger classic getting 3495 fps with RL-17 with 24" barrel. Energy at 500 yds is right around 1500 ft/lb
With that fast twist Bartlein got close to 3500 fps with RL-33 and a 30" barrel. At 18 lbs not a good candidate for hunting.
With so many of the newer cases using 30 degree shoulders and the Ackleys with 40 degree, the 35 degree shoulder 284 parent case was unique when it came out in 1963. Add a rebated rim and some very stout brass, it was way ahead of its time.
Easy to neck down 6.5-284 Lapua brass to 6mm. I own a Custom reamer. I use 24" Rem 243 takeoffs and rechamber them myself with no setback. When it burns out there are more barrels out there for little money.
Have also tried a 1 in 7.5 twist for 105 Bergers in a heavy Bartlein barrel.
Getting up to 4175 fps with 55 gr nosler ballistic tip and varget with 24" barrel.
With 95 gr Berger classic getting 3495 fps with RL-17 with 24" barrel. Energy at 500 yds is right around 1500 ft/lb
With that fast twist Bartlein got close to 3500 fps with RL-33 and a 30" barrel. At 18 lbs not a good candidate for hunting.
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codyadams
Well-Known Member
I enjoy the extra shooting with the ackley honestly. When I put together a gun, its because I want to shoot it, not because I want to get it done as quickly as possible and then set it in the safe. I don't look at it as extra work, a nuisance, or going out of my way....I like to shoot my guns, and with an ackley I need to shoot my gun. How is that a bad thing?
And besides, the gun will last a minimum of 1500 rounds generally, and up to 3000-4000 depending on chambering, why would I complain about having to shoot an extra 100? That whole thing with the ackley never made sense to me.
"I want to build a gun, but I REALLY don't want to have to shoot it 100 times!!" Lol....
And besides, the gun will last a minimum of 1500 rounds generally, and up to 3000-4000 depending on chambering, why would I complain about having to shoot an extra 100? That whole thing with the ackley never made sense to me.
"I want to build a gun, but I REALLY don't want to have to shoot it 100 times!!" Lol....
I also build them to shoot. I was very surprised that light loads of 36g varget with a 162 shot very well when fireforming. Plus my wife had a blast shooting the plates at 500. Plus it's fun to talk ackley and how they actually have LONGER headspace than the normal case 
Just a semantics thing that always got me.... couldn't help myself
Just a semantics thing that always got me.... couldn't help myself
codyadams
Well-Known Member
Good times ha haI also build them to shoot. I was very surprised that light loads of 36g varget with a 162 shot very well when fireforming. Plus my wife had a blast shooting the plates at 500. Plus it's fun to talk ackley and how they actually have LONGER headspace than the normal case
