7mm Rem Ultra Mag OR 7mm STW

[PowellSixO]

I'm wanting to build another rifle this year, and I don't know which route to go. I'm wanting to build a legitimate 1000 yard elk rifle (yep this broken record again ). I want to spend some fairly serious coin on this project, and don't want to make any costly mistakes along the way. In the end I want a rifle that can be used for long range elk hunting, and a rifle I can use to learn how to seriously/accurately shoot out to 1000 yards with (I don't want to be a poser, I actually want to do it ). I've looked for answers to my questions, but can't find the exact answers I'm looking for. I'm hoping you guys can help me out. I'm wanting to shoot the 175gr Nosler Long Range Accubond. It has a very impressive ballistic coefficient of .672, and has enough KE with the Ultra and STW speeds to deliver what I want out to 1000 yards. I've already got a 7mm Rem Mag, but want to keep it for deer. So I'm wanting just a little more umph. Looking at the ballistics between the 7mm Rem Ultra Mag and the 7mm Stw, it looks like the Ultra is better. But then I look at the difference in the powder amount between the two, and the STW seems better. Obviously most of you reading this have chosen the STW route, but why did you do so over the Ultra? It seems the Ultra brass is somewhat cheaper and easier to find, but that doesn't bother me as much. Barrel life doesn't matter as much to me either. You can always put another barrel on right . One more question before I go, what would be the best barrel length for the Ultra or STW shooting the 175gr LRA, and what twist rate should I look for? Thanks so much for your time guys. gun)

 

[bigngreen]

You may want to read this http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/nosler-lr-accubonds-bc-testing-results-137554/

 

[PowellSixO]

You may want to read this http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/nosler-lr-accubonds-bc-testing-results-137554/

Wow, interesting. I'm totally fine going with the 180 gr Berger VLD honestly. I've had excellent results with both the 7mm 168gr VLD, and the 6mm 87gr VLD. If the 180 gr VLD has a truly better BC, I have no issues switching to it. Thanks for posting that.

 

[MudRunner2005]

28-30" is ideal, but 26" works fine on both of mine.

The STW can be 250+ fps faster than the 7mmRM with the same bullet. If a 250+ fps MV increase is the proper "oomph increase" you are looking for over the 7mmRM, then go for the STW.

I am a firm believer that any 7mm beyond the STW sized case has too many diminishing returns... Crappy accurate barrel life, more powder for the same velocities, more expensive brass.

Also, 8mm RemMag brass can be found at Midway right now... Cheaper than STW brass and to make STW brass out of it, you just have to run it through a 7mm STW FL sizing die once, then when you shoot them they will form out properly.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/64...mington-magnum-box-of-25?cm_vc=ProductFinding

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Not sure who you're referring to as a "poser"...I can't help but feel you are referring to me. While I have never hunted elk, nor shot my STW to 1000 in the 12+ years of owning it, It doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

Muddy, you've got to get some bigger jeans man; your undies are in a bind...

Seriously though, either cartridge will kill very well with an accurate load. You will burn more powder with the 7rum and get less bore life... You will also have a bit more boiler room which makes it easier to push those heavy high bc pills we all love. I've got both a 7stw and a 7rum and I'm keeping both. I'm using my stw for mid weight pills and my rum for 168gr and above bullets. Both will get the job done, with a slight edge to the stw in reloadability.

My longest kill to date is a in the 700-800 yard range with a 7rum using a mid weight bullet and using holdover with no rangefinder. The evening before I blooded the rifle at a bit over 600 on a trotting deer with a crosswind. My last mule deer buck was a 5x7 shot through the neck at 480 yards trotting.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f126/fed-beast-124280/

 

[Dosh]

SixO, my coworker has a 7STW that is awesome accurate. It's a Nosler custom with a Nightforce which he's shot past 1000 with ease. I'm now thinking a 7STW would be the next addition to my hunting collection.

 

[PowellSixO]

Thanks for the responses guy. I really appreciate it.

I'm not taking any jabs at you mudrunner2005. I don't know where that even came from honestly. You've been very helpful believe it or not with me learning as much as I have so far. I joined this site not knowing how to reload period, or even the difference between moa, mil, or mrad. What I've learned from this site, and you in particular, is incredible. I'm no wiz at this whole game (probably never will be ).However I feel now that I can, at minimum, talk with local shooters and local reloaders and know whether they're feeding me good info or bs. That's where my poser comment comes in. I hate talking to people who say they can shoot a flea off a goats *** at 1000 yards. I've met plenty of them. Then I see them at the range, and they can barely keep a bullet on a full size ram silhouette at 500 yards. I don't want to toot my own horn, but I can shoot .65 moa groups out to 500 on the regular. I'll put either of my rifles in my signature on the line to prove it. I won't sit here and tell you I can shoot bug holes at 100 yards, and I won't tell you I can hit a 10 inch target at 1000, because I can't. I'm decent at BEST. But when I do something I have a little OCD, and I want to be the best I can at it. With this rifle I want to become better. I want a rifle that will out shoot me to the point where I have no excuses. I want to be able to hit a 10" target at 1000 yards cold bore. Am I there? Heck no! But that's what I'm shooting for (pun intended ). It may never happen honestly, but thats the goal I've set and I'm going for.

Anyways, enough of my ranting. Thanks for the info so far. I'm really leaning towards the STW. I may still need a little more persuasion though haha. So what's the difference in barrel life between the two? Are there accuracy differences? I've read that the Ultra has a long throat compared to the STW, which can cause accuracy issues. Is this true? Honestly any information you guys can give me is much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Mixture of several things, mainly misreading, caused that. Then after re-reading I edited my post. My appologies. Been a bit "edgy" lately for some reason. Once again, sorry.

Barrel life will vary on average. I have read alot of estimates (barrel life is a very subjective topic) and most have said the 7RUM gets around 600-800, and the STW 1000-1,200. But some guys on here have gotten over 1000 on a 7RUM and some over 1,500 on an STW. Too many factors play into barrel life estimation for me to give an accurate estimate. I'm just repeating the averages I've read over the years.

As far as accuracy, one caliber has the ability to be just as accurate as the other. There really is no such thing as "inherent accuracy" based on a cartridge's design with all the modern cartridges, bullets, powders, and primers. Not to mention all the specialty precision tools available to us today. I can imagine that back in the early days in the late 1800's to 1940's to 50's, case and bullet design was most likely a much bigger deal than today with all the technological advancements that allowed us to design the modern caliber cases that are still popular and have not gone the way of the Dodo bird.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

The 7rum has enough throat to take a max. oal of around 4.1"... the 7stw will top out oal wise at around 3.8" leave some of the freebore in with these rounds; it is there for a reason. You could have pressure issues if you don't give the bullet a bit of a run. I prefer to just run to max. mag. length... around 3.650" in a remmy...

I've never had accuracy issues with either caliber, considering how overbore they are anyway. They will be a bit picky but seem also to be somewhat formulaic... what one will like another will likely like also. Speak up for ideas and they just may be your golden ticket, so to speak.

 

[WildRose]

Thanks for the responses guy. I really appreciate it.

I'm not taking any jabs at you mudrunner2005. I don't know where that even came from honestly. You've been very helpful believe it or not with me learning as much as I have so far. I joined this site not knowing how to reload period, or even the difference between moa, mil, or mrad. What I've learned from this site, and you in particular, is incredible. I'm no wiz at this whole game (probably never will be ).However I feel now that I can, at minimum, talk with local shooters and local reloaders and know whether they're feeding me good info or bs. That's where my poser comment comes in. I hate talking to people who say they can shoot a flea off a goats *** at 1000 yards. I've met plenty of them. Then I see them at the range, and they can barely keep a bullet on a full size ram silhouette at 500 yards. I don't want to toot my own horn, but I can shoot .65 moa groups out to 500 on the regular. I'll put either of my rifles in my signature on the line to prove it. I won't sit here and tell you I can shoot bug holes at 100 yards, and I won't tell you I can hit a 10 inch target at 1000, because I can't. I'm decent at BEST. But when I do something I have a little OCD, and I want to be the best I can at it. With this rifle I want to become better. I want a rifle that will out shoot me to the point where I have no excuses. I want to be able to hit a 10" target at 1000 yards cold bore. Am I there? Heck no! But that's what I'm shooting for (pun intended ). It may never happen honestly, but thats the goal I've set and I'm going for.

Anyways, enough of my ranting. Thanks for the info so far. I'm really leaning towards the STW. I may still need a little more persuasion though haha. So what's the difference in barrel life between the two? Are there accuracy differences? I've read that the Ultra has a long throat compared to the STW, which can cause accuracy issues. Is this true? Honestly any information you guys can give me is much appreciated. Thanks.

MR is pretty right on. The very minimal return you get for the increased case capacity of the rum just is't worth the shorter barrel life and much increased muzzle blast and recoil of the Rum.

The 175 LR AB's are impressing me so far. Three big hogs and 9 deer taken with them this season at ranges out to 900yds and all were just bang flop dead except one that kicked a little with his hindquarters.

Yes the real world BC's are about 10% lower than advertised but they sure perform well on game. Every shot but one I fired gave me a nice through and through hole with a half to 1.25" exit. The one that did not was a neck shot right at the base of the skull and nearly cut her head off.

The nice thing about them is they aren't nearly so finnicky about COAL and don't need to be jammed into the lans to give acceptable accuracy. Just load them to mag length and let them rip.

RL 33 and H 1000 give good performance.

 

[Torgenrud]

I am new to this forum but have been lurking in the shadows for a while, so hi to everyone!
Anyways, I think they are both excellent cartridges, I do not currently own an STW but will have one soon i'm sure.
I do have two 7 ultra mags though and they are hands down my favorite rifles, both have 26 inch barrels, one has a muzzle brake the other does not. I mostly shoot the Berger 180 hybrids out of both and they both shoot exceptionally well. One of them I get very high velocity out of with the 180 moving at 3280 fps with a variation of about 20 fps using IMR 7828 SSC. The other shoots about 100 fps slower but both produce excellent accuracy and incredible ballistics. The recoil is also still less than my 338, it does have considerable muzzle blast but not unmanageable. As for barrel life I have over 600 rounds through one of them with no signs of accuracy loss so far. Also a lot of the reloading data is underrated for this cartridge.

The 7mm Ultra Mag gets my vote, I think its an amazing cartridge, thats why I have two of them gun)

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Of course I have to muddy the waters

28-Nosler.

There is enough information now to make your choice between the 3 harder than ever.

 

[Archery1973]

I have a 7mm STW for 180 bergers.

I have a 7mm RUM coming for the 195 berger (I'm told it is being released at shot show).

I was told the RUM will handle the longer 195 berger better than the 7mm STW.

Either way, you can't go wrong with either choice.

 

[WildRose]

I have a 7mm STW for 180 bergers.

I have a 7mm RUM coming for the 195 berger (I'm told it is being released at shot show).

I was told the RUM will handle the longer 195 berger better than the 7mm STW.

Either way, you can't go wrong with either choice.

I' not sure where you're hearing it but it does't make sense to me.

Yes it will push it faster but at much higher pressures, but "handle them better" just does't add up to me.