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6x47 vs 6 mm comp match
- Thread starter M Jager
- Start date
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that is a question best asked on 6br.com as that is where you will find the shooters of those cartridges.
sable tireur
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- Oct 8, 2010
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M Jager,
Neither.
Use the 6mm Creedmoor because factory brass is available (no fireforming), it's easy to reload and you can get high performance coupled with excellent accuracy.
Regards.
Neither.
Use the 6mm Creedmoor because factory brass is available (no fireforming), it's easy to reload and you can get high performance coupled with excellent accuracy.
Regards.
D
Deleted member 46119
Guest
Accurateshooter.com aka 6mmbr.com is probably a better venue for the question but...
If by 6x47 you mean a 6mm 222, it will be short on speed.
If you mean a 6x47Lapua aka 6mm-6.5x47Lapua, it will meet all your requirements.
A properly setup 6BR or any of it's descendants will do it as well.
When you get to the 6mm-6.5 Creedmore then you start chucking a lot of powder, same as the good ol' .243. Barrel life will suffer.
IIWM: it would be the 6mm-6.5x47Lapua. This is actually on my build list. Waiting only for me to finish playing with the other wildcats.
sable tireur
Well-Known Member
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- Oct 8, 2010
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jfseaman,
Second, your statement indicates a total lack of experience with this cartridge or you would not have made it. This cartridge is a new design, an improvement over the .243 Winchester. Just because they both have approximately the same capacity does not mean that they perform the same nor that they burn powder the same when in fact they don't. The 6mm Creedmoor outperforms the .243 Win. because of design.
In fact,
Whole teams of competitive shooters are competing with this cartridge and are seeing 3,000 rounds or better under competitive, high volume shooting environments. Who knows how many the average sport shooter will get when a longer time line is available.
Note that the 6x47 Lapua is also a fine, accurate cartridge but does not have the velocity that the 6mm Creedmoor has. This does not take away from the fact that it is a fine cartridge, it's just not as fast.
Regards.
First, it is the 6mm Creedmoor because it is now a stand alone SAAMI cartridge.
Second, your statement indicates a total lack of experience with this cartridge or you would not have made it. This cartridge is a new design, an improvement over the .243 Winchester. Just because they both have approximately the same capacity does not mean that they perform the same nor that they burn powder the same when in fact they don't. The 6mm Creedmoor outperforms the .243 Win. because of design.
In fact,
Whole teams of competitive shooters are competing with this cartridge and are seeing 3,000 rounds or better under competitive, high volume shooting environments. Who knows how many the average sport shooter will get when a longer time line is available.
Note that the 6x47 Lapua is also a fine, accurate cartridge but does not have the velocity that the 6mm Creedmoor has. This does not take away from the fact that it is a fine cartridge, it's just not as fast.
Regards.
D
Deleted member 46119
Guest
Perhaps a soothing camomile tea is called for.
sable tireur
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2010
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jfseaman,
Dori: Excuse me, Mr. Gandalf?
Gandalf: Yes?
Dori: May I tempt you with a cup of chamomile?
Gandalf: Oh, no, thank you, Dori. A little red wine for me, I think.
Regards.
Dori: Excuse me, Mr. Gandalf?
Gandalf: Yes?
Dori: May I tempt you with a cup of chamomile?
Gandalf: Oh, no, thank you, Dori. A little red wine for me, I think.
Regards.
As for the 6mm Creedmore "what the pros use" see article with all the details including the graph that sable tireur used.
6mm Creedmoor | PrecisionRifleBlog.com
I read the entire thread on what cartridges are popular. It is the PRS (Precision Rifle Series) which is a specific type of competition which doesn't necessarily coincide with the OP's needs.
I can't imagine using Hornady's brass for a cartridge when Lapua brass is available.
Regarding the 6 CM: Found this quote: "There are a few quirks of setting up a 6CM: 4-groove barrels and a .237" bore seem to be very important. Joe Hendricks, the cartridge designer, has said that the only trouble barrels he's had have been .236" bores and/or 5-groove barrels. I had trouble with a .236" bore, and putting on a .237 fixed it. However, if you go with a .237" bore 4-groove, then the guns do not tend to be finicky at all about the loads. (I've had 100-9X or better at 600 with 4 different loads with three different bullets, including the fireforming load mentioned earlier)"
------------------------
I would choose the 6 x 47.
The 6mm-6.5 x 47 Lapua seems like a better platform. Lapua brass with small primer. Some fantastic articles on it:
6-6.5x47 Lapua Varmint Hunter
Beginski's New 6mm-6.5x47 Lapua
----------------------
I have been looking at the many 6mm variants out there. I have decided to have a 6 BR reamer made. . Not too long ago I took my 30 Br reamer and went 1/2" deeper to make a 308 with a 30 BR neck, 30 degree shoulder and 30BR body taper. I bumped into something very similar in 6mm called a 6mm BR-K. I believe I can make a very similar cartridge by going 1/2" deeper with the 6 BR reamer. The beauty of this is being able to use a 6 BR die set for both cartridges.
Information on this 6mm variant:
Gunsmith Mike Sosenko and long-time AccurateShooter Forum member John Adams have been using a modified .243 Winchester case with great success in Varmint Silhouette matches at the Pala Range in Southern California. Officially called the ".243 BR-K" (and informally dubbed the "6BR Long"), the wildcat is basically a .243 Winchester with less body taper and a 30-degree shoulder. The design essentially grafts a 6mmBR Norma "top end" to the .243 Winchester case. After fire-forming, Mike and John can reload this case using normal, unmodified 6BR neck-sizing and seater dies.
Compared to a .243 Winchester, the .243 BR-K's body length is about .006″ longer, and the shoulder is about .0055″ wider. The main difference is the shoulder angle (30° vs. 20°), and the location of the neck-shoulder junction ("NSJ"). Based on reamer prints, the base to NSJ dimension is 1.718″ on the 6BR Long, compared to 1.804″ for the .243 Winchester. Neck length is a bit shorter because "the neck shrinks a little when the shoulder blows out" according to Sosenko. You can check with Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool & Gauge for exact dimensions. Dave created the reamers for both the 6mm and 22-caliber versions of this wildcat. Ask for the "22 BR-K" or ".243 BR-K" reamer designs.
So many chamberings so little time.
Enjoy the process.
6mm Creedmoor | PrecisionRifleBlog.com
I read the entire thread on what cartridges are popular. It is the PRS (Precision Rifle Series) which is a specific type of competition which doesn't necessarily coincide with the OP's needs.
I can't imagine using Hornady's brass for a cartridge when Lapua brass is available.
Regarding the 6 CM: Found this quote: "There are a few quirks of setting up a 6CM: 4-groove barrels and a .237" bore seem to be very important. Joe Hendricks, the cartridge designer, has said that the only trouble barrels he's had have been .236" bores and/or 5-groove barrels. I had trouble with a .236" bore, and putting on a .237 fixed it. However, if you go with a .237" bore 4-groove, then the guns do not tend to be finicky at all about the loads. (I've had 100-9X or better at 600 with 4 different loads with three different bullets, including the fireforming load mentioned earlier)"
------------------------
I would choose the 6 x 47.
The 6mm-6.5 x 47 Lapua seems like a better platform. Lapua brass with small primer. Some fantastic articles on it:
6-6.5x47 Lapua Varmint Hunter
Beginski's New 6mm-6.5x47 Lapua
----------------------
I have been looking at the many 6mm variants out there. I have decided to have a 6 BR reamer made. . Not too long ago I took my 30 Br reamer and went 1/2" deeper to make a 308 with a 30 BR neck, 30 degree shoulder and 30BR body taper. I bumped into something very similar in 6mm called a 6mm BR-K. I believe I can make a very similar cartridge by going 1/2" deeper with the 6 BR reamer. The beauty of this is being able to use a 6 BR die set for both cartridges.
Information on this 6mm variant:
Gunsmith Mike Sosenko and long-time AccurateShooter Forum member John Adams have been using a modified .243 Winchester case with great success in Varmint Silhouette matches at the Pala Range in Southern California. Officially called the ".243 BR-K" (and informally dubbed the "6BR Long"), the wildcat is basically a .243 Winchester with less body taper and a 30-degree shoulder. The design essentially grafts a 6mmBR Norma "top end" to the .243 Winchester case. After fire-forming, Mike and John can reload this case using normal, unmodified 6BR neck-sizing and seater dies.
Compared to a .243 Winchester, the .243 BR-K's body length is about .006″ longer, and the shoulder is about .0055″ wider. The main difference is the shoulder angle (30° vs. 20°), and the location of the neck-shoulder junction ("NSJ"). Based on reamer prints, the base to NSJ dimension is 1.718″ on the 6BR Long, compared to 1.804″ for the .243 Winchester. Neck length is a bit shorter because "the neck shrinks a little when the shoulder blows out" according to Sosenko. You can check with Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool & Gauge for exact dimensions. Dave created the reamers for both the 6mm and 22-caliber versions of this wildcat. Ask for the "22 BR-K" or ".243 BR-K" reamer designs.
So many chamberings so little time.
Enjoy the process.
muleystalker
Well-Known Member
I would go the 6CM,shoots faster, as accurate or more than the 6x47L, less finicky to load for than the 6x47L, and better barrel life and can shoot the 115 Dtacs with great results. I'm building a variant right know but like as stated above and using 6BR dies t to load. lots of good .243 brass available. As far as the 6x47 rem. (6x222 rem mag) I am building a 6x.204 which uses the .204 ruger brass, the 204 is based off the 222mag with the shoulder bumped forward and to 30deg. and less taper. It will be like a 6x47AI with the shoulder bumped forward. My buddy was shooting the 6x45 with 95r SMK and getting 2900fps,2850was a good load with great accuracy and great ballistics. taken several deer and rock chucks out to 680 yards. I should be getting about 2950 to 3000 withe the 95r smk's, and if it will push the 105's at 2850 that wouldn't be too shabby.
Run the ballistics on that on the 95smk at the 2850 and you will be surprised,we have shot it out to 1000 yards. The 6x204 will just be that much better. they are cheap to shoot and almost no recoil, they are addicting. Easy brass, just neck up, use 204 bushing dies, forester seater with the plunger replaced and your good to go. And I might add it shoots the 87r V-Max great and they are lines out on praiedogs. after rereading your requirements? what it will be used for, in your first post, the more I recommend the 6x204, or the 6x47Ai, evan a 6x45Ai would work great. They are so easy to load, economical to shoot and fun to shoot, almost no recoil.
Just thought its something you may want to look at since you listed velocity as last on your list..
Good shooting
Run the ballistics on that on the 95smk at the 2850 and you will be surprised,we have shot it out to 1000 yards. The 6x204 will just be that much better. they are cheap to shoot and almost no recoil, they are addicting. Easy brass, just neck up, use 204 bushing dies, forester seater with the plunger replaced and your good to go. And I might add it shoots the 87r V-Max great and they are lines out on praiedogs. after rereading your requirements? what it will be used for, in your first post, the more I recommend the 6x204, or the 6x47Ai, evan a 6x45Ai would work great. They are so easy to load, economical to shoot and fun to shoot, almost no recoil.
Just thought its something you may want to look at since you listed velocity as last on your list..
Good shooting
Last edited:
adam32
Well-Known Member
If you must have Lapua brass then go with an ol .243 Win or .243 Ack...lightbulb
BucksAndBulls
Well-Known Member
M Jager, have you talked with Chad Dixon or any one at LRI? He has some high praise for the comp match. He also has a big write up on FB about it and why he prefers it..... I am in the prosess of gathering parts for a switch barrel rig for prs and practice, one barrel will be the 6 comp match the other 6.5 saum....
Dave Bruno chambered my first 6CM (Competition Match) at the end of '07. It is a 27" Krieger 237 bore 4 groove. It currently has 4436 rounds down it. I have shot this barrel in EVERYTHING from bench to tactical matches, and always have ran it fast and hard. At 3950 rounds I put it on paper at 100 yards, 5 shot group was a bit under 3 tenths of an inch. I shot my last tac match at Core in December and enjoyed myself, I'm not that good, but my rifle is. I own 3 of these, my 30" BR rifle has given me 10 shot 2" groups at 800 yards... I will be pulling this barrel when I decide it is hurting me more then it is helping me, they do not last forever, just longer, and it has great accuracy throughout the majority of it's barrels life....gun) I've shot with and against all the others and it still makes them scratch their heads and jaws open. Now if I was only as good as the other shooters..
Gentlemen,
I see this old thread go resurrected. I ended up going the 6x47L route. Have most the parts but haven't yet put the build together. While I have no doubt the comp match is a fine round (and truth be told, it still interests me), I never quite could get comfortable with it. I'm sure if I ever get it put together, the 6x47 will serve my uses well. Maybe I'll do a comp match in the future. I would like to see a few more people using it before I decide to drop the coin a reamer.
I see this old thread go resurrected. I ended up going the 6x47L route. Have most the parts but haven't yet put the build together. While I have no doubt the comp match is a fine round (and truth be told, it still interests me), I never quite could get comfortable with it. I'm sure if I ever get it put together, the 6x47 will serve my uses well. Maybe I'll do a comp match in the future. I would like to see a few more people using it before I decide to drop the coin a reamer.
