.458 high BC bullets ?

[HarryN]

I am toying with an idea (and who knows if it will go beyond this stage) for a reasonably long range setup based on the 460 weatherby round. Of course there are other (probably better) approaches, but at the moment I am sort of wanting a rifle like this, so let's stay with this wild idea for the moment.

Basics of the idea:

- .458 size rounds have a lot of bullet weight range
- The 460 WB can actually be downloaded pretty far (examples below)
- The 460 WB can also be loaded up really far – almost crazy levels, although amazingly people do fire them on youtube with seemingly reasonable recoil

- Nayati inc – low recoil round, 500 grain, 1300 fps, recoil = 17 ft. * lbs , 10 ft/sec
- Nayati inc – intermediate recoil round, 300 grain, 2000 fps, recoil = 19 ft*lbs, 11 ft/sec

- A load similar to that intermediate load is within my capability, maybe slightly more

- The standard 460 WB loadings – no, I probably cannot handle those loads, but maybe one of my son's might want to go serious hunting someday. - who knows? Either way, the difference in rifle and ammo cost between a serious 338 and a 460 is surprisingly small, so maybe it doesn't matter.

Goals:
- Shots in the 300 – 700 yard range max
- Serious hog / black bear stopper, maybe even browns at that power level
- Just something different than another AR 15 at the range.
- Something different to talk about at the table.

The key seems to be to find a reasonably high BC bullet in .458 caliber, 300 – 400 grains, able to expand a lot down to 1300 – 1500 fps, and can work in a normal 460 WB twist rate.

The standard 460 WB twist (from the GSC web site list) is 1 in 16 inches, so a little bit slow, but I guess in theory I could order a custom twist barrel anyway.

In looking for bullets like this, there are not many on the market. Most of the BC's are in the .30 ish range from looking at Barnes, GSC, and CEB.

GSC lists a 450 grain version 458450HV094 with a BC of 0.4, and a special 566 grain 458586SP195 with a BC approaching 1.0, but it is for faster twist rifles like the .460 steyr (interesting, but beyond me), closer to 1 in 12 or 1 in 14.

Is anyone aware of a .458 bullet that is well above the BC = 0.5, mass in the range of 300 – 400 grains, and will stabilize in a normal 460 WB twist ? Just to make life a little more complicated, since I live in CA, it is better if the bullet is lead free, or at least a mono.

I even toyed with the idea of taking a mono solid and boring it out to lighten it up, which might be ok.

Thanks for any ideas.

Harry

 

[RT2506]

.458 and high BC bullets do not exist. What you are talking about doing with a 460 W was done back in the 1870s with the Sharps rifles in calibers like 45-70 to 45-110.
500ish gr soft cast paper patched pointed bullet pushed with BLACK POWDER at 1100 to 1400 fps out to really long ranges, 1000 yards or so, can be really accurate and will expand some. A cast naked, non-paper patched, bullet also can be really accurate but needs to be a bit harder and will not expand as much as the soft paper patched. Expansion of bullet was not needed to kill a buff it was a 45 cal hole put clean through vitals that kills and these heavy bullets will penetrate a loooooooog ways. Properly loaded black powder loads will be much more accurate than smokeless powder in these cases. When shooting at long range with anything .458 you have to know EXACTLY your yardage or you will miss. It has a trajectory like a river rock. We are talking feet and yards of drop not inches so a typical scope does not have enough adjustment. I shoot a Sharps style rifle in 45-70 and use a vernier tang sight and with my cast 520gr bullet from my RCBS BP mold and a case full of FFG BP it will do a touch over 1100 fps. From cross sticks on a good day it will easily shoot MOA out to 1000 yards. From shot fired to impact you can time it with a calendar. I am talking fire the shot, eject the case, lean over and look through the spotting scope and see the bullet falling from about a 45* angle hit the 4 foot steel plate near the center. If you really want something to hunt with a long range I suggest you get you something in 30 to 338 cal. with a muzzle break if you are concerned about recoil. Add a good Nightforce scope and PRACTICE. Oh! I almost forgot. Move from CA so you don't have to put up with their non-sense.

 

[HarryN]

Thank you very much for the useful information and experience. That is really good information and maybe I should rethink what I am after down to perhaps a .375 size.

The one .458 bullet I mentioned has a BC of around 1, which seems decent to me.

Perhaps if I reduce my range distance to 300 yards max, this will help.

If I drop much below the 40 caliber level, then the gun is not really ever "Africa capable", and I am torn about that part. ( I don't own many rifles, so it will just be this one and the existing 270 win to cover the gamut )

.338s are a great setup - no doubt that is proven. Maybe I have been reading about so many .338 variations on this forum that it seems - too common ?

I am certainly not capable of what a decent .338 setup can do, but like I said - there just does not seem like a big "cost to own" and "work / convenience" difference between a quality .338 vs. bigger.

I looked at 35 whelen, but there are really very few offerings in 35 caliber that are not outdone in 338 and 375 size, so why bother.

 

[snox801]

One answer cutting edge bullets. I have them for my Socom ar. I would look at the 258gr. Socom bullet. That opens down to 1400 fps. They also have larger weight. These bullets are devastating. Check them out now u have me wanting a new project gun.

 

[hemiford]

416 Barrett maybe ?

 

[HarryN]

One answer cutting edge bullets. I have them for my Socom ar. I would look at the 258gr. Socom bullet. That opens down to 1400 fps. They also have larger weight. These bullets are devastating. Check them out now u have me wanting a new project gun.

Thanks for the idea. The 458 Socom is a flat base bullet, so I think that both the barnes version and the CEB BC are around 0.2. All of the higher BC bullets I have seen have some kind of tapered tail, and the really high BC ones are pretty long.

It is a way to get the recoil down though, but probably will not help with range.

 

[HarryN]

416 Barrett maybe ?

The idea of moving to .416 is probably a really good one.

416 Barrett - That idea is either crazy or brilliant, but I am not sure which one just yet.

- 200 cc of powder capacity
- Very decent BC - in the 1 + ish range
- Ammo available from a reputable supplier at a reasonable cost
- Reloadable components available for fairly reasonable prices
- Based on a common brass round
- Could be downloaded with trailboss or similar for 1300 fps plinking
- Probably can find a 2 000 fps moderate load
- Passes the "dinner conversation / not everyone has one" test.

- The massive muzzle brake seems to be quite effective - on youtube, the people shooting them make it look like a 30-06 or less. Muzzle blast is - considerable

- I need to look at what range of bullets it can actually shoot with that high twist rate. If I used a 300 ish grain CEB raptor, it might be over stabilized. Still need to verify

- One company makes a bullpup version, which would help shorten the total length.

I have to think about if that is really a viable round / setup for hog / bear hunting though - might be a bit long and heavy.

 

[HarryN]

Re: .416 high BC bullets ?

I am becoming increasingly focused in on a .416 weatherby based approach.

We will see what actually happens.

Now I need to figure out how to change the original thread title.

 

[Demon061]

Just go pick up a Martini henry in .450/577 and have fun! haha. In all seriousness the .460 is a serious bruiser. I mean, you could wildcat it and possibly find a manufacturer willing to produce a high b/c round but... why? The .416 and .408 offerings out now are outstanding. I mean I get that it's fun and neat to wildcat I just don't know if the .460 is going to be an easy one to do so with.

 

[Swamplord]

I wouldn't give up on the .458 cal just yet !
A new extreme range cartridge is coming soon, along with high bc bullets in several weights !
that is about all I can give up at the moment, more info to come as developement progresses !

 

[mitch260]

I wouldn't give up on the .458 cal just yet !
A new extreme range cartridge is coming soon, along with high bc bullets in several weights !
that is about all I can give up at the moment, more info to come as developement progresses !

That looks really interesting. How long until we know more?

 

[Swamplord]

.458 and high bc bullets do not exist.

yes they do exist !

now imagine sending that 528 gr bullet with a bc of .828 @ 31-3200 fps
or how about a 600 gr jacketed steel tipped lead core bullet with a bc of 1.0 @ 3000 fps

 

[Demon061]

BMG case? Or could get weird with it and use a 14.5 Russian or one of the flavors of 20mm case for approximately ALL of the case cap

 

[Greasyspork]

Are those solid or jacketed lead bullets?