TC338
Well-Known Member
I'm interested in the opinions of those who frequently shoot beyond 1500 yards on these two cartridges for long range hunting. Which would you choose and why?
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338 Lapua vs 300 Norma
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LastShot300
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I have hunted with the Lapua and it performed as expected when doing LR work. I expect the same for the .300 Norma. I cannot think of any advantage of one over the other when it comes to hunting.
4xforfun
Well-Known Member
I can't imagine ANYONE "frequently" taking shots at game at over 1500 yards. I'm sure that the top end of the very, very best can take these shots under good conditions with the proper equipment. Also the poke and hope crowd..of which I despise..... But that is another matter.
I shoot an EDGE, so I am no help on your two choices.
Now, shooting steel, rocks, vermin, at 1500+.....HUGE FUN!!
Just my .02,
Tod
I shoot an EDGE, so I am no help on your two choices.
Now, shooting steel, rocks, vermin, at 1500+.....HUGE FUN!!
Just my .02,
Tod
TC338
Well-Known Member
I'm interested in these two chamberings as long range hunting rounds. Wasn't my intent to imply I'd be shooting at game from those extreme distances. Just interested in the performance of the rounds at those longer ranges.
yobuck
Well-Known Member
Both are fine cartridges, but neither would offer good performance at the distance your looking at.
I have a shortened version 30x378 which is identicle to the 300 Norma as for case capacity , and it is my favorite long range hunting gun.
I also have a 338 Big Baer, and my son has a 338x378. There is roughly a 250 ft per second velocity difference between the two using
300 gr bullets, and when you get to 1500 that difference becomes very noticeable.
We feel that when hunting beyond 1000 yds the 338s are very helpful. That said weve never killed a deer at 1500 yds, and on average most are well under 1000.
By and large the conditions dictate how far you shoot and not the cartridge choice.
There is also a major difference between just shooting for fun and hunting and shooting at animals.
I have a shortened version 30x378 which is identicle to the 300 Norma as for case capacity , and it is my favorite long range hunting gun.
I also have a 338 Big Baer, and my son has a 338x378. There is roughly a 250 ft per second velocity difference between the two using
300 gr bullets, and when you get to 1500 that difference becomes very noticeable.
We feel that when hunting beyond 1000 yds the 338s are very helpful. That said weve never killed a deer at 1500 yds, and on average most are well under 1000.
By and large the conditions dictate how far you shoot and not the cartridge choice.
There is also a major difference between just shooting for fun and hunting and shooting at animals.
This is a article by Todd Hodnett comparing 300wm, 300NM, and 338 Lapua.
https://www.accuracy1st.com/content/docs/Binder7.pdf
https://www.accuracy1st.com/content/docs/Binder7.pdf
LastShot300
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I read the article way back, it's biased in the selection made for the different cartridges. Not a fair article I'd say.
D
Deleted member 46119
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Taking game at ELR is a very specialized program. If you have the skills and equipment that is part 1. Next, consider retrieving the game from a mile away.
Will it be cross canyon. Will it be dropping off a steep incline. What is your climb down, up, down and up again with your game and trophy.
If it's rolling hills, how will you cross all those property lines. How will you be sure of your hit and where the game fell. Finding a blood trail starting from nearly a mile away means keeping your bearing sight references very well.
Make the shot. Sure. I believe quite a number here could do that.
Will it be cross canyon. Will it be dropping off a steep incline. What is your climb down, up, down and up again with your game and trophy.
If it's rolling hills, how will you cross all those property lines. How will you be sure of your hit and where the game fell. Finding a blood trail starting from nearly a mile away means keeping your bearing sight references very well.
Make the shot. Sure. I believe quite a number here could do that.
yobuck
Well-Known Member
Actually, much of what is thought and said on this subject is based on opinion, and not first hand knowledge based on actual experience. Beyond that, actual experience in one part of the country wont necessarily work well, if at all, in another part.
Go find a large tree like say an oak tree with a butt diameter of say 12 to 20 inches. Then walk under the tree and look up and closely observe all the various size branches.
Then imagine a whole mountainside covered up with trees like that everywhere. When the leaves are on you wont see the ground when looking from a distance. And when they come off in late fall you can, but guess what?, all the branches are still there.
So now were trying to coax a bullet from way up in the air down thru all those branches to the target. Think about it, better yet go try it.
So regardless of the gun you have or how good you are or think you are, you also need to be very lucky. And its much easier being lucky under 1000 yds than it is beyond that distance.
Also consider we have all year to fanticize about all this, but only 2 weeks to actually do it assuming were lucky to have the time off.
And reality is we might only have a portion of the 2 weeks due to poor weather closing us down for hunting long range.
So where are you going tomorrow?, someplace you might find and kill one, or someplace where you just might maybe get lucky, and then brag about the mile shot?
Ill tell you this much, in about 45 years of being around many of the best l/r shooters and hunters you will find anywhere, ive yet to meet one who brags about a 1 mile kill on a PA buck.
Go find a large tree like say an oak tree with a butt diameter of say 12 to 20 inches. Then walk under the tree and look up and closely observe all the various size branches.
Then imagine a whole mountainside covered up with trees like that everywhere. When the leaves are on you wont see the ground when looking from a distance. And when they come off in late fall you can, but guess what?, all the branches are still there.
So now were trying to coax a bullet from way up in the air down thru all those branches to the target. Think about it, better yet go try it.
So regardless of the gun you have or how good you are or think you are, you also need to be very lucky. And its much easier being lucky under 1000 yds than it is beyond that distance.
Also consider we have all year to fanticize about all this, but only 2 weeks to actually do it assuming were lucky to have the time off.
And reality is we might only have a portion of the 2 weeks due to poor weather closing us down for hunting long range.
So where are you going tomorrow?, someplace you might find and kill one, or someplace where you just might maybe get lucky, and then brag about the mile shot?
Ill tell you this much, in about 45 years of being around many of the best l/r shooters and hunters you will find anywhere, ive yet to meet one who brags about a 1 mile kill on a PA buck.
6.5x47hunter
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Hi Ernie I stopped at camp to see ya the other day, you weren't there!???
I shoot a 300NM and went up against a 338NM (similar to Lapua)and thought I would kick butt! well, I had mine handed to me, I was shooting 208Amax which suck compared to 210 Berger or 230OTM i'm shooting now) just a rock shoot at 1200yds, I hit and blew dust, the 338 hit and blew off chunks. shot at Mifflin sportsman at steel, I had to shoot first because the steel animals disappeared after the 338NM and 300SGK hit. he made the steel at 1k bounce on the chains, incredible! I made a loud ting and made it swing. the 300NM is nothing compared to Ernie's 338 Big bear.
don't get me wrong, I love the 300NM and it is plenty enough for me out to 1500yds. I have it getting set in a Manners T5A and mini chassis right now getting set for 1 mile.
yobuck
Well-Known Member
Hi Mark, no need to be making any excuses for those guns you have, but the bigger bullets do take over at some point. Problem is, in PA
we rarely have the type conditions needed to get to that point.
No I haven't been to the camp all year, and frankly not sure what the future holds regarding that. Were having some internal issues, and until/unless that's resolved, I wont be going there.
we rarely have the type conditions needed to get to that point.
No I haven't been to the camp all year, and frankly not sure what the future holds regarding that. Were having some internal issues, and until/unless that's resolved, I wont be going there.
6.5x47hunter
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I still tried to come see you!
I always said the same thing, when a 22 cal isn't big enough move up to the .224. when your .224 cal isn't big enough move up another caliber. when a .284cal isn't big enough move to .30 then .338 etc...BUT there are still those that claim a 7mm cal kicks the 30cal *** lol,
a .30cal kicks the .338 *** about as much as a 7mm kicks the .30cal ***.
I guess its like the old saying, which is better the 30-06 or .270
I am real happy with the 300NM!
I always said the same thing, when a 22 cal isn't big enough move up to the .224. when your .224 cal isn't big enough move up another caliber. when a .284cal isn't big enough move to .30 then .338 etc...BUT there are still those that claim a 7mm cal kicks the 30cal *** lol,
a .30cal kicks the .338 *** about as much as a 7mm kicks the .30cal ***.
I guess its like the old saying, which is better the 30-06 or .270
I am real happy with the 300NM!
I do not know even all the way out to sonic range the 300NM with a 230 TH @ 3050 vs the 338NM @ 2775 has the later beat in everything but energy on target. Even @ 1500 yd the 338 only has energy of 159ftlb more than the 300 and they are both over 1K. I think wind is the most critical factor only you are out past 1K. The 300 is 10" less wind for a full value 10 mph wind. Drop is a win for the 300 with 129" less drop. The both go subsonic in the 1900 range so thats a wash but even there the 338 only hold about the same 120-150 energy lead all others in the 300 favor.
But with that said as a hunting rifle I really like the 338NM. It only needs a 24" barrel to get it done where the 300 really needs a 26" With a good brake while the recoil difference is easy to tell (300 has less) its nothing terrible. It wins hands down in barrel life beat both the 300 and 338LM by over 2x. I can see a lighter weight build with a good brake 24" barrel making a good LR but also not bad pack rifle and when things start to close in it would still offer good handiness.
But with that said as a hunting rifle I really like the 338NM. It only needs a 24" barrel to get it done where the 300 really needs a 26" With a good brake while the recoil difference is easy to tell (300 has less) its nothing terrible. It wins hands down in barrel life beat both the 300 and 338LM by over 2x. I can see a lighter weight build with a good brake 24" barrel making a good LR but also not bad pack rifle and when things start to close in it would still offer good handiness.
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yobuck
Well-Known Member
Well energy alone isn't whats important when hunting.
Tissue damage is whats important, and for that you need velocity behind a good bullet.
I wouldn't be using more than a 210 gr bullet in the 300 Norma.
I actually use 190s in mine and I'm happy with the results.
Put the book down and actually go try them at say 1200 yds.
You will find the 230s will be landing way down the hill compared to the lighter ones.
Velocity runs the show, always has and always will.
Same goes for the 338s, if your gonna have one, have one that reaches at least 3000 fps with the 300 gr.
Tissue damage is whats important, and for that you need velocity behind a good bullet.
I wouldn't be using more than a 210 gr bullet in the 300 Norma.
I actually use 190s in mine and I'm happy with the results.
Put the book down and actually go try them at say 1200 yds.
You will find the 230s will be landing way down the hill compared to the lighter ones.
Velocity runs the show, always has and always will.
Same goes for the 338s, if your gonna have one, have one that reaches at least 3000 fps with the 300 gr.
