gilcarleton
Member
Sorry but I have a little catching up to do before I can have an intelligent conversation on this site. Would you mind telling me what slump is?
338 ax bullet choice for elk.. Going crazy
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jmden
Well-Known Member
The first gen 300g Berger, at certain twists and/or at certain speeds (some had issues at speeds that a 338 LAI could spit 'em out at--the regular 338 Lap and EDGE didn't seem to have the problem as I recall) were believed by many, including Bryan Litz, to have developed 'nose slump', where the forward portion of the ogive would lose structrual integrity at certain twists/speed combinations and exhibit very poor grouping. Some bullets would fly true while others would veer off course, so to speak. This issue was corrrected with the 300 OTM, I believe, and I haven't heard of it with the 300EH either. I've never noticed it in my 338 AX (LAI) with the OTM or EH. At the time, the problem seemed like it could be exacerbated further with the more powerful 338 Allen Magnum (AM) (Cheytac case) and the like, of course, spitting them out much faster. In fact, and I'm a little fuzzy here, those first gens may not have worked basically at all with the likes of the 338 AM.
dkhunt14
Well-Known Member
I think it is still the same bullet and they released the OTM for the faster guns. Some guys wanted the same bullet because they liked it. When they first came out I bought a bunch so I would have the same lot. I have pushed them to 3050 without slump and backed it down a little to make sure. The original bullet was an Elite and I don't think they changed it. They just made the thicker jacketed one. I love the ones I got because they are accurate and really kill. The Lapua IMP was at the upper edge of slumping the Elites. It usually happened somewhere above the 3000 FPS mark with certain barrels and twists. Some guys reported it as low as 3000 and some said it didn't happen at 3100. Matt
gilcarleton
Member
Thanks so much. It makes a lot more sense now.
jmden
Well-Known Member
I don't think that is correct. I believe there was some reworking of the EH so that 'nose slump' would not occur. Who is going to sell a bullet where there is a known issue with it? I remember being quite concerned about that and doing some research on it before I was willing to switch from the OTMs to the EHs in 2013 as I did not want to experience the issues of the first gen 300g Berger at the velocities my 338 LAI pushed them to--velocities that many had trouble with while shooting the first gen 300g Berger.
ArtsMonkey
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Not re rehijack my thread back but if i were to load the Bergers off the lands would it affect the accuracy in the AX? Thoughts? i'm going to ask Kirby the same question so let's see who can get it right 
jmden
Well-Known Member
I don't really understand your question. Every rifle will find a certain recipe of primer, bullet, powder, brass (perhaps neck turned or annealed every other firing, etc.) combination that it will like...found by you experimenting to find it. There's no 'set' recipe for your gun that will optimize it's potential. That's for you to find out by experimentation and knowing what you're doing and keeping good records. There may be a load that tends to work well in certain chamberings. Like the EDGE--there's the standard 90g H1000, CCI 250, 300 Berger anywhere from -.005 to -.030 where guys seem to be finding the best precision with that combination. The load I already noted above that works for me is very close to what works for many others with the same or similar 338 LAI chamberings. Most guys do not load right to the lands for a hunting load.
Is this your first custom rifle or wildcat chambering you are reloading for?
Kirby has a pretty cut and dry method of doing load work up and it seems to work for him. It may be that his load works well for you or it may be that you could find a load that works better than that for you. Every rifle/shooter combination is unique.
Is this your first custom rifle or wildcat chambering you are reloading for?
Kirby has a pretty cut and dry method of doing load work up and it seems to work for him. It may be that his load works well for you or it may be that you could find a load that works better than that for you. Every rifle/shooter combination is unique.
ArtsMonkey
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First off yes this is my first custom rifle. I've worked up loads before on my other rifles and haven't had an issue. I am far from a reloading expert, but closer to intermediate level. everything i read about Berger says a lot of people load to lands.. obviously if i want to use the DM i can't do that. without having the gun i don't really understand how much of a jump we are about and if that can be overcome without sacrifice to long range accuracy/potential. I prefer not to use it as single shot and if it came down to that choice i wouldn't take Berger. Is there something I'm missing?
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
I only own one rifle that I load Berger in the lands on and I don't have to just want to max case capacity, it shoots very well almost anywhere.
My 338's all shoot Bergers, frankly I don't build a performance rifle and stick less that the top performing bullet in it which is the Berger, the closest I run any of the ones I load is .040 of the lands others are much farther. I can't imagine chambering a 338 and it won't run a 300 Berger!!
My 338's all shoot Bergers, frankly I don't build a performance rifle and stick less that the top performing bullet in it which is the Berger, the closest I run any of the ones I load is .040 of the lands others are much farther. I can't imagine chambering a 338 and it won't run a 300 Berger!!
jmden
Well-Known Member
Both the OTM and the EH use the 'hybrid' ogive. So, it may be that the Bergers would shoot fine at mag length for you. That may not be the optimal load recipe for your rifle, but that the issue many have that have a mag that won't let the bullet be seated close or at the lands. That's one reason I have the 4" Wyatt's box in each of my .338s. But again, my experience with long range and second shots on game now tell me that I"ll be single loading due to meplat damage from recoil in the mag, even though I can reach the lands and still have the round work in the 4" Wyatts box. You'll just have to see what works for you. I'm sure you'll get it all figured out to your satisfaction one way or the other. Merry Christmas!
ultraedge
Well-Known Member
I have shot thousands of 300gr OTMs and hundreds of Elite Hunters at .125 off the lands with good results. Gary
ehryk
Well-Known Member
yep, I have shot a lot of Berger VLD Hunters .140 off the lands with excellant results out of m .300 WSM.
dkhunt14
Well-Known Member
I checked with Berger and they said they wanted to keep the Elite the same and never changed it because some guys really liked it. I know I just kept them below 3000 to make sure. They said they kept it the same and just added the OTM to give the guys shooting faster bigger cases a bullet that wouldn't slump. I know the Elite is super accurate and really kills in my 338 Lapua IMP. All my shots have been one shot kills and the accuracy at 1000 yards is not showing any slump issues. Matt
