.338-404 Imperial Magnum

Gert Odendaal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
47
Location
Witbank
Good day Members

Please be so kind as to give me any information regarding the .338-404 Imperial caliber. I think it was the caliber that preludes the 330 Dakota...a straight .404 brass neck down to a .338 bullet without any changes to the .404 brass itself? It was a Canadian experiment a few years ago...

Any links will be helpful.

Gert
 
Sorry, I saw this post so late. I have owned a 338 Imperial Magnum for a number of years. The .404 Jeffery case is fire formed. I actually use 375 Ultra Mag brass to form mine now. Just a small neck trim is needed after sizing. Original .404 Jeffery brass needs the rim turned slightly, from .545" to .532. The Ultra Mag already has the proper rim diameter.
 
This wildcat became the .338 Imperial Magnum, which was manufactured in Canada for a period of time. I have a box of brass headstamped .338 Imperial, from the Canadian manufacturer. I have a M70 Express that was chambered in this cartridge for a period of time. Then I eventually had it re-chambered to the .338 Edge. The only difference between the .338 Imperial and the .338 Edge, is the shoulder on the Edge is moved ~0.015 to 0.020" further forward, for slightly greater case capacity than the .338 Imperial Magnum.

I typed "338 Imperial" with the quotation marks, and received 78 hits using this Forum's Search function. Set the "Find Posts from" to Any Date. And set "Keyword Search" to Search Entire Posts.

I've posted information about my .338 Imperial on this forum a number of times in the past. I have some reloading data and recorded MV data from my rifle. If you send me a PM with your e-mail address, I could send you an attachment consisting of some reloading data I kept from my .338 Imperial days.
 
Members, my apologies for responding to your replies so late..I only received conformation of the possibility of purchasing the .338 -404 Imperial Magnum reamer, re-loading dies and go/no go gauges...and 40 RWS .404J fully formed and once fired .375 Canadian cases. This will be a rifle build to commence end of next year..thus giving me time to do planning and accumulate information/re-loading data from members...Please be so kind as to elaborate on the use of your .338-404 Imperial Magnum..how it shoots, in regards to accuracy, average distance accuracy, barrel life expectancy , brass re-loading life expectancy , carry weight /type of hunting suited for this caliber, recoil levels/tolerances..??? It would be great to hear from you as shooters of this caliber , me as novice really would like to know more about this caliber and rifle ....
All the best as always
Gert Odendaal
 
Gert,
The .338 Imperial Magnum is a clone of the .338 Edge in every way, except the case head to shoulder joint length is about 0.015" to 0.020" shorter, and the rim diameter may be slightly larger.

You should expect very similar performance and barrel life as with Shawn Carlock's .338 Edge. Accuracy will be as good as any other .338 caliber cartridge, dependent primarily on the quality of the barrel, rifle build, and your load development. It's a great performing cartridge, equal in every measure to the .338 Edge, minus perhaps 25fps of muzzle velocity due to the slightly lesser case capacity.

Here's another route to consider. The .338 Imperial reamer can be used to create a .338 Edge chamber. And .338 Imperial dies can be used to load .338 Edge cartridges. And all of your brass could be fire formed to the .338 Edge. How do I know? I've already done all of these things. Kirby Allen converted my .338 Imperial chamber to the .338 Edge.

What are the advantages? Well performance wise, very little. Not worth it from a performance-based perspective. But nobody knows what a .338 Imperial is. The .338 Edge is much better known, so resale value and component availability for the .338 Edge makes it a better option, in my own opinion. Which is why I converted my .338 Imperial to the .338 Edge.

Good luck with your project, and good shooting!
Paul
 
Gert,
The .338 Imperial Magnum is a clone of the .338 Edge in every way, except the case head to shoulder joint length is about 0.015" to 0.020" shorter, and the rim diameter may be slightly larger.

You should expect very similar performance and barrel life as with Shawn Carlock's .338 Edge. Accuracy will be as good as any other .338 caliber cartridge, dependent primarily on the quality of the barrel, rifle build, and your load development. It's a great performing cartridge, equal in every measure to the .338 Edge, minus perhaps 25fps of muzzle velocity due to the slightly lesser case capacity.

Here's another route to consider. The .338 Imperial reamer can be used to create a .338 Edge chamber. And .338 Imperial dies can be used to load .338 Edge cartridges. And all of your brass could be fire formed to the .338 Edge. How do I know? I've already done all of these things. Kirby Allen converted my .338 Imperial chamber to the .338 Edge.

What are the advantages? Well performance wise, very little. Not worth it from a performance-based perspective. But nobody knows what a .338 Imperial is. The .338 Edge is much better known, so resale value and component availability for the .338 Edge makes it a better option, in my own opinion. Which is why I converted my .338 Imperial to the .338 Edge.

Good luck with your project, and good shooting!
Paul
Here's another route to consider. The .338 Imperial reamer can be used to create a .338 Edge chamber. And .338 Imperial dies can be used to load .338 Edge cartridges. And all of your brass could be fire formed to the .338 Edge. How do I know? I've already done all of these things. Kirby Allen converted my .338 Imperial chamber to the .338 Edge
Paul, thank you kindly , it is much appreciated , please elaborate on your statement above...what do you have to do to achieve this procedure??? If I get my reamer and re-loading dies , how am I to go about this procedure to successfully convert to the .338 Edge????
 
Here's another route to consider. 1) The .338 Imperial reamer can be used to create a .338 Edge chamber; 2) And .338 Imperial dies can be used to load .338 Edge cartridges; 3) And all of your .338 Imperial brass could be fire formed to the .338 Edge. How do I know? I've already done all of these things. Kirby Allen converted my .338 Imperial chamber to the .338 Edge.

Paul, thank you kindly , it is much appreciated , please elaborate on your statement above...what do you have to do to achieve this procedure??? If I get my reamer and re-loading dies , how am I to go about this procedure to successfully convert to the .338 Edge????

Gert,

1) Your gunsmith will use your .338 Imperial chamber reamer to create the .338 Edge chamber, with the proper .338 Edge headspace. Which means the chamber will be cut a little deeper (approximately .015 - .020" deeper) than for the .338 Imperial. A competent gunsmith will know the precise .338 Edge headspace dimension prior to cutting the chamber.

2) You'll back your .338 Imperial resizing die out slightly so it leaves the longer case head to shoulder dimension to match your new .338 Edge chamber, rather than the shorter case head to shoulder dimension of the .338 Imperial cartridge.

3) The initial fire-forming of the .338 Imperial cases to fit the .338 Edge chamber is a bit of a hassle and consumes some time and materials. It's easier to demonstrate that to describe in this reply. The person you're getting the .404 Jeffery cases and .338 Imperial dies from may be a good source of information. Because someone already went thru this process to create .338 Imperial cases from that parent .404 Jeffery brass. Here's how go about it:
A) anneal the .338 Imperial case necks; B) enlarge the .338 Imperial case necks to .358" using a case neck expanding mandrel; C) partially resize the case necks back down to .338 with your .338 Imperial resizing die, being careful to leave sufficient .358" diameter case neck to act as a shoulder to ensure the case head is in firm contact with the bolt face when closing the bolt on your .338 Edge chambered rifle; D) use the Cream of Wheat (COW) method to fire form the .338 Imperial cases to your .338 Edge chamber; E) anneal the case necks a second time after fire forming.

The .338 Imperial was a neat cartridge and you could stick with that for the nostalgia. The Remington Ultra Mags more or less copy-catted the Imperial Magnum line of cartridges that were designed/developed by a Canadian. However the Imperial Magnums have gone by the wayside and as such, .338 Imperial head-stamped brass hasn't been manufactured for decades.

Two big advantages to building a .338 Edge are 1) it's a current cartridge (not obsolete), and 2) high quality head-stamped brass is available from Shawn Carlock (Defensive Edge is the business name, if memory serves me right).

Both are good performing .338 cartridges offering a bit more MV and downrange performance than the .338 Remington Ultra Mag. I've killed a number moose and brown bear with mine over the years. Impressively effective on these large animals.

Choices, choices choices... Hope this is helpful...
 
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Gert,

1) Your gunsmith will use your .338 Imperial chamber reamer to create the .338 Edge chamber, with the proper .338 Edge headspace. Which means the chamber will be cut a little deeper (approximately .015 - .020" deeper) than for the .338 Imperial. A competent gunsmith will know the precise .338 Edge headspace dimension prior to cutting the chamber.

2) You'll back your .338 Imperial resizing die out slightly so it leaves the longer case head to shoulder dimension to match your new .338 Edge chamber, rather than the shorter case head to shoulder dimension of the .338 Imperial cartridge.

3) The initial fire-forming of the .338 Imperial cases to fit the .338 Edge chamber is a bit of a hassle and consumes some time and materials. It's easier to demonstrate that to describe in this reply. The person you're getting the .404 Jeffery cases and .338 Imperial dies from may be a good source of information. Because someone already went thru this process to create .338 Imperial cases from that parent .404 Jeffery brass. Here's how go about it:
A) anneal the .338 Imperial case necks; B) enlarge the .338 Imperial case necks to .358" using a case neck expanding mandrel; C) partially resize the case necks back down to .338 with your .338 Imperial resizing die, being careful to leave sufficient .358" diameter case neck to act as a shoulder to ensure the case head is in firm contact with the bolt face when closing the bolt on your .338 Edge chambered rifle; D) use the Cream of Wheat (COW) method to fire form the .338 Imperial cases to your .338 Edge chamber; E) anneal the case necks a second time after fire forming.

The .338 Imperial was a neat cartridge and you could stick with that for the nostalgia. The Remington Ultra Mags more or less copy-catted the Imperial Magnum line of cartridges that were designed/developed by a Canadian. However the Imperial Magnums have gone by the wayside and as such, .338 Imperial head-stamped brass hasn't been manufactured for decades.

Two big advantages to building a .338 Edge are 1) it's a current cartridge (not obsolete), and 2) high quality head-stamped brass is available from Shawn Carlock (Defensive Edge is the business name, if memory serves me right).

Both are good performing .338 cartridges offering a bit more MV and downrange performance than the .338 Remington Ultra Mag. I've killed a number moose and brown bear with mine over the years. Impressively effective on these large animals.

Choices, choices choices... Hope this is helpful...
Paul, thank you kindly for all this information, it really is much appreciated...I am currently building a 8x68S Mauser as well as a 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser the one a longer hunting distance rifle for heavy game such a Eland, Oryx and blue wildebees..on plains ....as well as die 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser to hunt further out for small game like springbuck , blesbuck on the plains in the Freestate or Kalahari...I now am wondering where the .338 Imperial Magnum will fit and what can I really use it for??? If I know what I want to do I will stay with the .338 Imperial Magnum since it is a caliber with a great unfortunate history and I do not think anybody or very few hunters/shooters has the original .338 Imperial Magnum...what makes this even more special is that I am buying all these components from the originator of the caliber..Aubrey White ...another caliber I need to build and will build is an extremely scarce and very great historical history is the 9.3 x 70 Mauser...I know of only three in the world who has one if I am included...
Paul thank you again it is much appreciated..I will keep you informed ...
 
Gert,
Now that I understand the source of your .338 Imperial items, I would also keep it a .338 Imperial. Pretty neat to end up with those items from the originator of the cartridge. I've got one box of the .338 Imperial head-stamped brass, but I already fire-formed it out the the .338 Edge.

Sort of repeating myself here, but in the effort to make sure you understand, your .338 Imperial chamber reamer can cut a chamber in .338 Imperial or .338 Edge. Also, a .338 Edge chamber reamer can be used to cut a chamber in .338 Edge or .338 Imperial. If you have either chamber reamer, you have no need for the other.

Also, .338 Imperial reloading dies can be used to produce either .338 Imperial cartridges, or .338 Edge Cartridges. But a .338 Edge resizing die cannot resize .338 Imperial cartridges, because the die would bottom out on the shell holder before the shoulder on the .338 Imperial could be set back.

There is a quick modification which will convert a .338 Edge resizing die to function on .338 Imperial cartridges, which involves removing ~0.020" off the base of the resizing die. This can be done in a gunsmith's lathe, or with careful use a bench grinder. I've modified resizing dies using both methods in the past. Yeah the bench grinder method is crude, but it's produces a completely functional resizing die if done with some care and common sense. Shaving 0.020" off the base of a .338 Edge resizing die in essence, creates a .338 Imperial resizing die. It allows the modified .338 Edge resizing die to be screwed down sufficiently in the reloading press to reach the shoulder on the .338 Imperial cases. And as I noted in the last sentence of the preceding paragraph, the modified die will be completely functional for resizing either cartridge.

I feel certain you'll be able to find a niche for a .338 on some of those African game. At either close or long range... ;)
 
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