308 winchester brass life

[swiper]

Been loading 308 win with IMR 4895 seem to get short brass life. Best load is 45.5 gr. with 125 nosler ballistic tip 44.gr with 150 gr. nosler ballistic tip. any body else notice this. 3 or 4 loads brass is junk

 

[BergerFan222]

Been loading 308 win with IMR 4895 seem to get short brass life. Best load is 45.5 gr. with 125 nosler ballistic tip 44.gr with 150 gr. nosler ballistic tip. any body else notice this. 3 or 4 loads brass is junk

What brass?

 

[Bart B]

Are you measuring your resized cases to see how much their shoulders are bumped back from their fired position?

If you're setting the die up as its instructions say and your chamber is a bit on the long size for headspace, you will get short brass life.

I don't think your load is too hot but right at about SAAMI spec for maximum.

Once, I shot a Federal .308 Win. case 46 times full length sizing it every time, but only set the shoulder back .002" each time. 42 grains of IMR4895 under a Sierra 165 SBT bullet. A friend shot the same load under Sierra 168's in his .308 with a Federal case getting 56 loads on it. Both our rifles had SAAMI spec chambers. We both ran out of our test powder each time or we would have got more reloads on our single case.

Many people shot that powder charge under 155-gr. match bullets in their .308's and got dozens of loads per case full length sizing them; but set the die correctly in the press. It was a safe but maximum load across all sorts of rifles; very accurate, too.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Are you measuring your resized cases to see how much their shoulders are bumped back from their fired position?

If you're setting the die up as its instructions say and your chamber is a bit on the long size for headspace, you will get short brass life.

I don't think your load is too hot but right at about SAAMI spec for maximum.

Once, I shot a Federal .308 Win. case 46 times full length sizing it every time, but only set the shoulder back .002" each time. 42 grains of IMR4895 under a Sierra 165 SBT bullet. A friend shot the same load under Sierra 168's in his .308 with a Federal case getting 56 loads on it. Both our rifles had SAAMI spec chambers. We both ran out of our test powder each time or we would have got more reloads on our single case.

Many people shot that powder charge under 155-gr. match bullets in their .308's and got dozens of loads per case full length sizing them; but set the die correctly in the press. It was a safe but maximum load across all sorts of rifles; very accurate, too.

Bart B,
I know you are very knowledgeable, but your definition of what FL sizing is and what you are actually describing, are two very different things.
FL sizing is reducing the case back to SAAMI/CIP minimum dimension, so the case will fit in ANY chamber, what you are describing is PARTIAL FL sizing, the two are not the same.
I do something similar with my loading for hunting, but I use a body die, then size the necks with either a modified neck die and expander, or a dedicated neck bushing die. It depends on the brass I'm using as to which method I use.
Strangely, contrary to what many believe, my comp rifle cases get Partial FL sizing in a Forster style FL bushing die, are annealed after EVERY firing and get .003" bump to the shoulder. Accuracy is better than neck sizing and using a body die separately.
To the OP, if case life is short, you're probably pushing the shoulder back excessively, try adjusting your die OUT, size a case, until it feels snug on bolt closure, then adjust IN 1/12 of a turn, this is approx .003" adjustment.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[swiper]

Thanks guys I am Full length sizing because I use these loads in three different guns they shoot very well in all. maybe i need to keep ammo for each gun and resize without pushing sholder back so far or just pay the price . Burgerfan same results on Remington, Win. , and Federal brass

 

[Bart B]

Bart B,
, , , , your definition of what FL sizing is and what you are actually describing, are two very different things.

Not according to 99% of the reloaders I've talked about such things. As well as my last conversation with several reloading die company folks and a SAAMI rep some years ago on that subject. Their consensus is that full length sizing reduces the outside dimensions of the full length of the case from their pressure ring to their mouth down a little bit but never to SAAMI minimum specs. If they did, each one would have to be at whatever inside dimensions for all sorts of brass properties as well as case wall thicknesses to get back to some dimension that's probably not where they were when new. Standard full length sizing dies don't size down fired cases from their head to just short of the pressure ring. From SAAMI's glossary:

RESIZING, FULL LENGTH
The operation of reforming a fired cartridge case to approximately its original dimensions.

None of my full length sizing dies reduce fired case outside dimensions to that of a new case. Close is as good as they get.

99% of all the reloaders I've discussed this with say partial full length sizing is sizing down "part" of the case neck and all of the body forward of the pressure ring; hence "partial" is the operative word in the term.

This falls into the same issue with the space between the bolt/breech face and case head when called "headspace." SAAMI and most others says it's "head clearance."

 

[Dgd6mm]

I would buy a Hornaday Headspace Gauge set to set your dies up properly.

 

[gunlover05]

if it is a bolt gun just neck size only and segregate them, good brass will last a LONG time doing this and theoretically better accuracy. every 5 or 6 times FL size them.

 

[AZShooter]

Swiper,

I read the entire thread. Would like to know what you mean when you say your brass is junk after 3 or 4 firings. Case head separation? loose primer pockets? Cracked necks? etc.

thanks

 

[swiper]

loose primer pockets and cracked necks

 

[AZShooter]

Thanks for sharing what wears out. As for primer pockets, IMO, if they don't last three firings the load is too hot.

Cracked necks: the chamber diameter vs the dimensions of the FL die are very different. The brass is getting over worked expanding upon firing then over sized small to then pass over the sizer ball.

If you would be willing to try you can use a bushing die to reduce the OD of the necks with less working for a longer neck life. There is a possibility that with unturned necks you could have inconsistent neck tension using just a bushing.

If you are not turning them then a bushing that will size them a few thousandths smaller than the sizer ball then run them over the ball to uniform the ID and neck tension. (have to give Kevin Thomas of Lapua kudos for that idea)

I agree with another poster segregate the brass for each rifle.

Be sure to let us know how that works out.

 

[codyadams]

Just for reference, My nosler brass got 9-10 reloads and then the primer pockets got loose. I was using a max load, 46 gr. varget w 168 AMAX, if I would have reduced my load I would have got more out of it but thats where my gun shot well, no signs of head case separation and the necks were fine. My rifle has a super tight chamber, some factory rounds almost wouldn't fit in my gun. My standard RCBS die wouldn't size them enough, they would get very tight after a couple loads even full length sizing every firing, I had to buy a small base die and FL size every time, if I backed the die off any at all it was a very tight fit in my chamber and was very hard to cam the bolt down.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Not according to 99% of the reloaders I've talked about such things. As well as my last conversation with several reloading die company folks and a SAAMI rep some years ago on that subject. Their consensus is that full length sizing reduces the outside dimensions of the full length of the case from their pressure ring to their mouth down a little bit but never to SAAMI minimum specs. If they did, each one would have to be at whatever inside dimensions for all sorts of brass properties as well as case wall thicknesses to get back to some dimension that's probably not where they were when new. Standard full length sizing dies don't size down fired cases from their head to just short of the pressure ring. From SAAMI's glossary:

RESIZING, FULL LENGTH
The operation of reforming a fired cartridge case to approximately its original dimensions.

None of my full length sizing dies reduce fired case outside dimensions to that of a new case. Close is as good as they get.

99% of all the reloaders I've discussed this with say partial full length sizing is sizing down "part" of the case neck and all of the body forward of the pressure ring; hence "partial" is the operative word in the term.

This falls into the same issue with the space between the bolt/breech face and case head when called "headspace." SAAMI and most others says it's "head clearance."

Wow, obviously your definition of what is written is totally different to mine.
If you READ what I said, which is reducing the case to CLOSE TO SAAMI/CIP specs, is EXACTLY what you just wrote, is FL sizing.
I guess I have no idea what I'm talking about or doing, so I better give up shooting all together.
By the way, Headspace is a mechanical dimension of a rifle chamber, Head Clearance is a mechanical dimension of a cartridge case in relation to a specific rifle chamber.

 

[rcoody]

Wow, obviously your definition of what is written is totally different to mine.
If you READ what I said, which is reducing the case to CLOSE TO SAAMI/CIP specs, is EXACTLY what you just wrote, is FL sizing.
I guess I have no idea what I'm talking about or doing, so I better give up shooting all together.
By the way, Headspace is a mechanical dimension of a rifle chamber, Head Clearance is a mechanical dimension of a cartridge case in relation to a specific rifle chamber.

You will have to excuse Bart. He is a little anal.

If you listen to him none of us know anything about reloading

and you would wear out most barrels during load development.