300 RUM and 230 Berger Hybrid project

[ajridgedell]

I've been loading 210 VLDs in my 300rum Sendero factory rifle. After trying to shoot them 1 mile I decided to go to the 230s. So my goal for now, is to be able to hit my 12"x16" steel plate at one mile with come consistency. I figured I would post this project on here to see if the info can help others or for others to critique my process.

The rifle has a little over 300 rounds through it with the 210g VLD's going about 2980fps so I believe it still has some good life left in it. At one mile I was hitting all around the plate but never made contact.

Yesterday I started my load development by finding the max I feel comfortable loading the 230's with Retumbo. The 210's shot best around .050 off the lands so this is where I started with the 230's. Worked up from 87 to 93 and feel comfortable at 92. Could have gone a little more but I would like the barrel to last as long as possible, and I feel that 3000fps +/- should accomplish my goal. At 100 yards I was impressed with how it is shooting so far. The top four shots are 90 to 93 grains.

I have done ladder tests with other rifles but with the last one I loaded for, I found the max I felt comfortable with and it shot great there so thats what I went with. I plan to do the same here, so I will see how it shoots at 92 grains this evening or tomorrow evening hopefully.

 

[4xforfun]

OK..here is some advice on loading for long range. Take it or leave it.

STOP WORRYING ABOUT MAX FPS AND START WORRYING ABOUT GROUP SIZE. lightbulb

Your targets don't give two rips about that extra 50 or 100 FPS you scrounged up.......especially if you miss. The only good use I find with FPS is bragging rights in the Bar. Accuracy and repeatability is what you need if you want to consistently bang LR targets. OK..and PRACTICE!!

Now, don't get me wrong.....I think that it is important to know where the "end" is as far as speed, but that is simply for safety reasons if I decide to retest or change things up.


Just my .02,
Tod

 

[ajridgedell]

OK..here is some advice on loading for long range. Take it or leave it.

STOP WORRYING ABOUT MAX FPS AND START WORRYING ABOUT GROUP SIZE. lightbulb

Your targets don't give two rips about that extra 50 or 100 FPS you scrounged up.......especially if you miss. The only good use I find with FPS is bragging rights in the Bar. Accuracy and repeatability is what you need if you want to consistently bang LR targets. OK..and PRACTICE!!

Now, don't get me wrong.....I think that it is important to know where the "end" is as far as speed, but that is simply for safety reasons if I decide to retest or change things up.


Just my .02,
Tod

For shooting targets that aren't stretching the capabilities of a rifle system I agree 100%. In my situation the difference between 2782fps and 3010fps is 71moa vs 58.9moa from some quick calculations. And it would give me 175 yards more supersonic range (not much value there imho). If it allows me to use less of the reticle for holdover and not have to zoom out as far (FFP scope) and still gives me acceptable accuracy, and requires less load development, it is worth the trade off for not having it shoot the best groups the rifle is capable of. That is my thinking for this project. If it does not shoot like I want it to at 92 grains, I will have to do a ladder test to get the desired results. I will be happy with .5moa or a little worse maybe.

To your point, my 243 that I take to 600yards matches I could care less about velocity because the highest score wins, not the fastest bullet.

 

[Doublezranch]

Lots of truth being spoken here...love it!! I have spent lots of time with RL 33. I use it in 7 rum, 338/375 rum improved and 270 wsm. Are you totally set on Retumbo? My custom 300 rum shoots 102.7 grains of 33. Velocity is 3200 +\- fps out of a 28 inch tube. This certainly is not a load if your looking for barrel life or longevity of brass, however I am getting 4-5 reloadings currently. I'm sure you can "lighten the load" and make it what you need to achieve your goal. I like what you've done. That's my only thought for trying to grab some speed and keep the pressures down. Carry on my friend!!

Jayson

 

[ajridgedell]

Are you totally set on Retumbo?

At least for 6-7 more pounds, i shoot retumbo on my 243 with 105 hybrids too though, but i keep hearing good things about RL powders. When I rebarrel may go longer like you and do the rl33

 

[Earnhardt]

Watching with great interest!
Thanks for sharing!

 

[ajridgedell]

Got a chance to shoot this evening. Didn't go as good as I hoped, but most things don't 100 yards was like 3/4 Moa and 600 yards was slightly worse. 100 yards was off bench with bipod and rear bag, and 600 was prone with bipod and rear bag. All my shots felt good, but that stock isn't the most comfortable to me. I will try shooting the same load one more time tomorrow off the bench and shooting vise like I did on Sunday before giving in to working up a load the "right" way.

 

[ajridgedell]

Well still not great, so I'll drop down to 89g and try some different seating depths, see what it likes and go from there. Trying to decide if I want to do a ladder test to start or just shoot three shot groups at 10 20 30 40 off the lands. Opinions?

 

[jwall3d11]

I wouldn't go .010 at a time. Berger recommends about .040 at a time and start narrowing it down from there.

 

[jwall3d11]

The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a "sweet spot". This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.
Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won't be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.
Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).
Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don't give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.
Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
.010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
.040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
.010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).
Regards,
Eric Stecker
Master Bulletsmith



Got this from Bergers website

 

[brentc]

A common node for the 230 is 89.0- 89.5 grains of retumbo in RP brass with a Fed 215. In Nosler or Norma it should come in about two grains less. My hybrid loads have shot the best at .050 from the lands after testing with several rifles.

 

[barefooter56]

The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a "sweet spot". This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.
Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won't be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.
Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).
Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don't give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.
Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
.010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
.040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
.010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).
Regards,
Eric Stecker
Master Bulletsmith



Got this from Bergers website

jwall3d11,
Thank you for posting this! Please let me add that ALL bullet seating depth testing should be done at the LOWEST POWDER CHARGE LISTED FOR THE BULLET/POWDER /CARTRIDGE COMBINATION YOU ARE TESTING FOR! After the seating depth accuracy node is found then work the load back up in 1/2 grain increments until you get to 2 GRAINS BELOW MAXIMUM then drop to 1/10th grain increments. All the while you will be checking your accuracy and for pressure signs. Doing load and seating depth testing by the number looks daunting. But doing this in a haphazard manner will take you longer and be very frustrating. Change 1 thing at a time / test/ record. What works in other peoples rifles WORKS IN THEIR RIFLES no two rifles are the same!

 

[Wachsmann]

So what type of brass is Remington? I don't know if they make there on brass or have it farmed out with just there head stamp on it. for the the OP I run 89.4 grns of retumbo somewhere at 70ths to 90 ths off the lands. This was the sweet spot for the 230 OTM's. The gave me 1/2 inch at 200yards. The pressure was high in my rifle with this load. Velocity was 2945ish or 2940ish I believe. I want to test the out again but they seem to hold pretty good at 750yrds also. I know there is one guy on here that had a hell of a rifle built. Shot like less than 2 inches at 1000yards. Great video on the whole thing. I used his load data but started lower and worked up and mine seem to mirror his except for the groups at 1000yrds he produces. My rifle is factory though.

 

[ajridgedell]

Weather broke long enough for me to get out and do some work this afternoon. Decided to shoot 4, 3 shot groups at 10 30 60 and 90 jump with 84g of retumbo. Looks like around 60 will do the trick. After each group I just dialed up on the scope to separate groups. Interestingly enough I had one primer that wouldn't go off, hit it three times!, so I had to run inside and load one more at 010. It looked to be seated high so prolly my bad. I also colored a few bullets to see how they'll mark the paper for tomorrows ladder test. Should be better than driving 500 yards every shot.