30 Nosler +P load tuning help please

[Walker375]

Problem child specs:
Weatherby Mark V Deluxe
Bartlein #3 8tw
Chamber 30 Nosler +P throated for 215 Hybrids.

Long story short, I started load development with H1000, N570, Federal 215 primers, Berger 217 Elites and ADG brass. H1000 shot the best 5 shots under ½" consistently. I've since switched to Peterson brass because the poor primer pocket quality of the ADG. Since switching, the rifle hasn't shot anything consistently. I finally did a primer test a few days ago with 215s, 250s, and br2. All over the same charge of N570. Second picture is the Br2 group at .630". The first picture middle group are the 250's @.650" (first 3 shots on clean barrel). I chose to continue today with the CCI250's due to a little higher velocity and half the ES of the Br2s. Today i shot the top group in the first picture with the exact same load as the other day. However, the group opened up to .930". I'm getting to the point of cutting the barrel into small pieces. Does the group from today look tunable and if so how? Or how would you tune any of those loads. I tried working up from 87 to 88 today and it jusy got worse. I'm starting to see a trend of the 3rd shot being the worst in the group.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Is this a hunting rifle ar a BR set-up?
To tune, have you done any neck interference testing, seating depth testing or tried other primers?
.6" groups is nothing to sneeze at, it may not be your barrel causing any of this, there are more factors in the overall set-up that could causing this.
Need more info than provided.

Cheers.

 

[AverageJoe90]

Did you change from H1000 to N570 when changing to Peterson brass? If H1000 was your best accuracy, you could try using it again with the Peterson brass. It's not going to match the speeds of N570, but if that's what your barrel likes, that's what it likes.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Changing from ADG to Peterson is your issue. Peterson has less case capacity, so pressures changed. Rework your load.

 

[K.E.C. Darkside]

I would keep trying different primers. And-Or seating depth,
Primers Gut feeling on this.

 

[Huntaddict]

Hard to imagine but enjoy the process. LOL

I run the 215s in both the 30N and the 300 PRC. The hybrids have a different protocol when load testing.

Start over with the new brass and run a test according to Bergers recommendation:

• Pick a charge weight, primer, and brass
• Select 5 seating depths from .009 off though .035 off and run 3 shot groups with each
• Whichever of the 5 gives you the best group is your control
• Then run 4 different charge weights at that seating depth. A group should show itself, the fine tune from there

If that does not work with your first powder, try it again with your second choice. H1000 is probably fine but I would lend to Retumbo, N568 range. N570 is fine if that is what you have

I have done with in a few rifles with the 135, 190, and 215 hybrids and it worked each time.

 

[Walker375]

Changing from ADG to Peterson is your issue. Peterson has less case capacity, so pressures changed. Rework your load.

I absolutely did. I reduced way down and worked up as normal since the Peterson is about 4gr less case capacity. Probably is nothing with my original components (H1000, N570, Federal 215's, and berger 217 Elites) has shot anywhere near consistent since switching brass, regardless of how I adjusted.

 

[Walker375]

Did you change from H1000 to N570 when changing to Peterson brass? If H1000 was your best accuracy, you could try using it again with the Peterson brass. It's not going to match the speeds of N570, but if that's what your barrel likes, that's what it likes.

I tried all my original components when I switched brass. H1000 gave me the best accuracy with ADG brass but no matter what I've adjusted with the Peterson (seating and charge) it wouldn't repeat a good group. It shoot one then not repeat it. And it's doing it with both H1000 and N570 now.

 

[Walker375]

I would keep trying different primers. And-Or seating depth,
Primers Gut feeling on this.

I've tested 3 primers. Fed 215's, CCI 250'S, and Br2s. Most of my loads have been with the fed 215s. The results of the 250s and Br2 are in the pics. The only other primer I have to try is a fed 210.

 

[Walker375]

Hard to imagine but enjoy the process. LOL

I run the 215s in both the 30N and the 300 PRC. The hybrids have a different protocol when load testing.

Start over with the new brass and run a test according to Bergers recommendation:

• Pick a charge weight, primer, and brass
• Select 5 seating depths from .009 off though .035 off and run 3 shot groups with each
• Whichever of the 5 gives you the best group is your control
• Then run 4 different charge weights at that seating depth. A group should show itself, the fine tune from there

If that does not work with your first powder, try it again with your second choice. H1000 is probably fine but I would lend to Retumbo, N568 range. N570 is fine if that is what you have

I have done with in a few rifles with the 135, 190, and 215 hybrids and it worked each time.

Between this rifle and another I'm absolutely starting to hate load development. I've pretty much tried all of this above. With 217 elite hunter and 215 hybrids. I've tried with both H1000 and N570. Depths in .005" steps from touching to .065" off. This was all done with the federal 215 primer. Judging by the results from my primer test is pic 3, and an attempt to verify the cci250 consistency in pic 2. Idk if it's worth trying to tune that or not. Or even how at this point.

 

[Walker375]

Is this a hunting rifle ar a BR set-up?
To tune, have you done any neck interference testing, seating depth testing or tried other primers?
.6" groups is nothing to sneeze at, it may not be your barrel causing any of this, there are more factors in the overall set-up that could causing this.
Need more info than provided.

Cheers.

Brass has been neck turned to .0045" total clearance to match the ADG clearance.

 

[PddPdd]

Perhaps try the full range of Berger's recommended seating depth options?

 

[Phil Rizzo]

If you haven't yet, take a medium pressure powder charge, of whatever powder, and find your preferred seating depth. Start at wherever and move .005 at a time in the same direction until you identify the tightest group/groups. You should see a steady trend from your changes, all else being equal.
Groups should tighten to a point where they start to open again, or vice-versa. I'd start no more than .015" off the lands, personally.
Moves of 10-15-20 thousandths can miss the sweet spot EASILY.
Once identified, work on powder charge weights using that seating depth. If the powder won't give suitable results try another. If none work, try another primer with the same powders and the seating depth that showed the best result.
Once you see real promise, re-tune depth in .003 increments and repeat shooting that best group. It should repeat.

Changing a primer requires a full powder workup, unless you get real lucky.

 

[Walker375]

If you haven't yet, take a medium pressure powder charge, of whatever powder, and find your preferred seating depth. Start at wherever and move .005 at a time in the same direction until you identify the tightest group/groups. You should see a steady trend from your changes, all else being equal.
Groups should tighten to a point where they start to open again, or vice-versa. I'd start no more than .015" off the lands, personally.
Moves of 10-15-20 thousandths can miss the sweet spot EASILY.
Once identified, work on powder charge weights using that seating depth. If the powder won't give suitable results try another. If none work, try another primer with the same powders and the seating depth that showed the best result.
Once you see real promise, re-tune depth in .003 increments and repeat shooting that best group. It should repeat.

Changing a primer requires a full powder workup, unless you get real lucky.

I have done exactly this with both powders and federal 215 primers, 217 and 215 bergers. Started at the lands and went all the way to 65k off in 5k increments. I thought I had it at 10, 15, and 65k. It would shoot a .400+/-" group but then it would never repeat. I'm now trying the CCi250 primers and trying to figure out if it's even worth going through a full work up again or not. At this point I have no faith in this rifle with this brass.