250 AI from Nosler 22-250 Cases

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by jcweber, May 5, 2015.


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  1. jcweber

    jcweber New Member

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    Apr 28, 2015
    I just had a rifle built with a PacNor 250 Ackley Improved barrel. I've fire formed about twenty rounds of Rem-UMC 250 Savage ammunition with no real issues and I've reloaded them using RCBS dies and all seems well. I also acquired about 20 loaded rounds and 5 fired 250 AI cases made from Nosler 22-250 brass. These are causing me some trouble, however.

    Neither the Nosler reloads nor the fired cases will chamber in my rifle. The bolt will not close on the round. I tried resizing one of the fired Nosler cases with the RCBS 250 AI dies and the bolt will still not close on the resized case. I was hoping that I could use 22-250 brass to reload to 250 AI but now I'm not sure I can.

    Any idea of what is the matter?
     
  2. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    If those fireformed cases were NOT fired in YOUR RIFLE CHAMBER, they may be TOO LARGE and your sizing die isn't pushing the shoulder back enough.
    My question is, are you camming over when sizing these cases?
    If you are not, it just may need to have the die screwed IN FURTHER into the press. I suggest adjusting the die IN 1/16 turn at a time until a case chambers with slight resistance, WITH THE FIRING PIN ASSEMBLY REMOVED OR WITH THE SAFETY IN THE MIDDLE POSITION ON A 3 POSITION TYPE, once you get to this point, another 1/32 turn IN will give adequate head clearance for ease of chambering.
    Hope this helps.

    Cheers.
    gun)
     
  3. predator 22

    predator 22 Well-Known Member

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    Are you setting your dies where you get a cam over action with your press? Do you have a reamer print you could post? My guess would be you have a short chamber or the guy with the 22-250ai had a long chamber.
     
  4. jcweber

    jcweber New Member

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    Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated.

    I did try screwing the dies down "cam over" I believe you called it. Didn't seem to solve my problem. I believe I had it turned all the way in but I will try to adjust it again. I do not have precision measuring instruments to check the case dimensions. I was thinking that perhaps Nosler brass itself might be causing the problem, but not sure how.
    It would sure seem that the RCBS dies would return any oversize 250 AI cases to the original dimensions unless they were grossly oversized which they don't seem to be.

    It could be a short chamber on my rifle but standard 250 Savage, both Rem and Winchester factory rounds fit ok and the fire-formed brass and the ammo I reloaded fit also.

    I may be missing something very simple but it escapes me.
     
  5. Rack

    Rack Well-Known Member

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    Check length of case. Do they need to be trimmed?
     
  6. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    If the case length proves OK, try this, use a feeler gauge of around .005" under the case when FL Sizing, it goes under the case head and between the shell holder, try to chamber it, if it doesn't chamber, try going up in .002" larger feeler guages until a case chambers. I would not exceed .015", as this is beyond what can be fixed for use.
    I think you may have a short chamber, and the fireformed brass was shot in an oversized chamber or one that wasn't negatively headspaced correctly.
    Let me know how you get on, then I can advise on what to do next.
    I have a 375 Weatherby that is .008" UNDER minimum SAAMI specs, so know how difficult this can be, but the fix is pretty simple if you want to use that brass you have.

    Cheers.
    gun)
     
  7. predator 22

    predator 22 Well-Known Member

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    How far down the neck is being sized with the die turned in to can over?
     
  8. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would rather do it with good quality .243 Winchester brass. I do the 6mm/250AI, and case shrinkage would be excessive with 22-250 brass because your moving a lot of metal around. The shoulder on a standard 22-250 is about .414", while the .243 is .454". I saw .035" shrinkage, but with the .243 case it was about half that. I know it's a little more work, but the results prove themselves out.

    Lastly, and before you ever do a single case. Find out the exact length of the chamber neck length. Trim your case about .008"-.010" shorter than that number. The neck length will often be .025" or longer, and this will only help your situation. The brass flow on fire forming will move the neck back towards the case rim, so don't worry. My trim length comes in at 1.933", and anything added into the length helps throat life (although not much here).

    Your going to really like this round by the way! It's often regarded as Parker's best design (I'm also a big fan of the 6.5x57 and 7x57 rounds he did as well). Be nice to see somebody do a new series of 25 caliber bullets with a high B/C.
    gary

    P.S.
    I must apologize for not addressing your issue.

    The rounds will not chamber after being resized? This as others have said might come from a minimum spec'd headspace. (we're never that lucky!). This is going to be hard without some tools to make measurements with, honestly. If you have a couple cases that have not been thru the die, leave them alone and keep them separate.

    I would make a trip over to Harbor Freight, and buy a 6" digital caliper. Buy a steel one, and stay away from the cheap stuff. Next I would get the phone book out and find a ball bearing outlet (not Tractor Supply), and buy something like a .500" ball bearing (they are not expensive. A 12mm would be even better! You'll use the ball bearing as a gauge to check your caliper. Down the road buy a one inch micrometer, and learn to use it accurately. Don't buy a cheap Chinese micrometer, and you want generic steel anvils instead of carbide (you get a better feel).

    Now it's entirely possible that you have a die cut towards the max length and a chamber cut to the minimum. I would take a case you've sized, and run it thru the die again. With the case all the way in the die (max stroke), I would see if the die was contacting the case holder (assuming your using a typical O frame press). I don't think your press is flexing doing what you are doing. I do some serious wildcats, and I have been known to remove as much as .015" from the bottom of the die. But I've known guys that were able to remove .010" from the top of the shell holder. This not a common thing to do, and I really doubt you need to do this. Plus I think we're really looking for .003"/.006" headspace relief here.

    I wish you were near me, as I'd bring the measuring tools and we'd get it done.
    gary
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  9. the jigger

    the jigger Well-Known Member

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    Both of my 250AI's have used 22-250 brass. this is my process:
    Start with virgin brass(brand of your choice)
    Neck size with your 250 die

    Load to fire form with your choice of 250Savage loads with a 100gr bullet( I like RL15 or IMR4064)
    Full length size ONE time; the rest of the way neck size.
    My two rifles will not trade brass. One is built on a Ruger#3 and the other on a savage short action. The two chambers are just a hair different!??
    Once you get your bbrass straitened out you are going to love this cartridge.
    GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!
     
  10. jcweber

    jcweber New Member

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    I measured all the Nosler cases I have and they are 1.900". Within tolerances and the same as the Rem cases.

    It appears that the neck is sizing down to the beginning of the shoulder. I don't see any mark between the mouth and the beginning of the shoulder.

    I have screwed the FL sizing die all the way into the loader so that it touches the shell holder at the up stroke and it still doesn't chamber after all that.

    I've tried checking all the measurements that I can with my calipers and the darned cases seem to match up with Rem cases that I fire-formed and that work perfectly after sizing with the RCBS dies. But there is obviously at least one that isn't the same.

    I think I'll probably pull the bullets and powder from the loaded Nosler-cased rounds and reconstruct into other cases. It is sure puzzling to me that the RCBS dies will not reform those cases to the proper size. Maybe they are messed up.

    I will also probably try using some 243 cases. Are there special, intermediate steps I need to follow to make that transition?

    Thanks
     
  11. jcweber

    jcweber New Member

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    Thanks, jigger. Good to know someone else has interchangeability problems. It seems likely that like others have said, the chamber of my rifle is "a hair" smaller than the chamber from the Nosler-cased reloads.

    I'm very much looking forward to acquainting myself to this cartridge. Just fire-forming the brass with factory loads was a hoot.
     
  12. den

    den Well-Known Member

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    for those cases you may need to screw the die down an eighth to a quarter turn past touching the shell holder to push the shoulder back enough for your chamber then you will have to reset your die to resize to minimum for your own fired brass , if your die is all setup already I think the feeler gauge way magnum maniac suggested will do the same without all the hassle
     
  13. Springville shooter

    Springville shooter Well-Known Member

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    You might want to employ the use of a headspace gauge and a competition shell holder that will allow you to bump the shoulder back to appropriate length if that is where the fit is tight. Could also be the neck or body. All of these need to be mic'd until you find the culprit.--------SS
     
  14. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    As I said, if you place a feeler guage under the case as described previously, your cases will be sized enough. Also, if there is a gap between your shell holder and the die WHILE sizing a case, then FL sizing to inimum spec IS NOT HAPPENING! The shell holder MUST be in contact with the bottom of the die.
    The way you have your die set up now is perfect for trying the feeler guage method, trust me, it works by allowing more of the case to enter the die.
    I would also NOT size 243 cases to 250, the necks will end up way too thick, the dimensions of the 2 are very very different and YOU WILL HAVE TO TURN NECKS JUST TO BE SAFE.

    lightbulb