.243 win reloading issues.

[northernexposure]

Well Folks, be nice to me here, I'm still learning.
First, the info
~> Savage 111fc .243 win
~> Reloading with Hornaday 87gr V-Max....VihtaVuori N 560 powder @ 44gr's with cci #200 primer.

Problem is, I can't get any consistency with it. At 100 yds, I'm lucky to get a 4" pattern.
I'm using a bi-pod and bagging the rear... taking myself out of the equation.
Yet, the same rifle with a different load (55gr Ballistic Silvertip, 56gr's Hodgdon H380 and the same primers) is almost punching the same hole every shot... just 8" higher.
I have tried reducing the load and increasing it to compression with no real improvement in accuracy (87 gr v-max).
What am I doing wrong here??? Why are the 87gr's all over the place and yet, the 55 gr's are where I put them?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[SaskShooter]

Geez, that sounds awful!

Have you tried experimenting with your seating depth yet? full length size or neck size? sorting brass by number of times fired? even cleaning your brass can make a huge difference.

Sometimes it's as simple as changing the bullet itself. When I started loading for my .243 I had the almost same issue, my gun shot .5" groups with 55 grain Ballistic Tip factory ammo but when I started handloading 55 grain Ballistic Tips, my groups widened out to over 3 inches! I tried different seating lengths, different powders, neck sizing, etc. and nothing got me under 2.5". Finally I just tried some Berger 69 gr High BC Flat Base Match bullets... groups down to .3" at 100 yards. Now I shoot 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip Boattails simply because they perform better in the field.

Handloading is really all about experimenting. If you know your rifle can shoot well, then it usually just takes some trial-and-error until you find the right handload.

One last question though- Do you think it could be your rifling twist? Most Savage .243 rifles come with a 1-9". By all means that should stabilize an 87 gr bullet if it can shoot accurately with a 55 gr, but if it has a custom barrel on it then twist rate may very well be the entire issue.

Hope this helps.

 

[Joe King]

What he said ^
could also be that your rifle just doesn't like the load.
Try this load and see how it works for you (I've used it quite a bit)
85gr sierra HPBT, 37.3gr IMR 4064 and a CCI200.
It's strait out of the Sierra manual about 3100fps.
If it works then you'll have one to fall back on while you continue to learn with other loads.

 

[boogsy]

I have never had any good luck with hornady bullets except with there factory rounds. Try a sierra or a nosler bullet in my book there better. Keep the 55 gr load if it shoots that well thats awsome. In NE PA guys would kill to have a 243 shoot light bullets that good. Agreed with above comments as well, fine tune seating depth. Not all rifles, calibers, will shoot all components we'll you have to find what your gun likes.

Good luck

 

[northernexposure]

I understand what everyone is trying to say... I'll give some more specs on it, maybe it will help.
First, I'm being very anal with all sorting, measurements and sizing. All casings are trimmed to a max length of 2.045" and de-bured. I also keep track of their groups and those groups are together in lots. I have tried varied seating lenghths ranging from a maximum of 2.710 (found the projectile was just starting to show marks of being too long) to a minimum of 2.677". I have even gone so far as try not crimping... no luck.
To give you an idea on the scope of how much I have tried, I have gone through one lb of n560 powder and 125 of the Hornaday 87gr's. I feel like I'm looking for an answer when there is no answer.
SaskShooter mentioned a custom barrel.... Nope. It's the factory barrel with a 9.25 twist. Nothing special.
In the past, I have tried many factory loads and never had an issue. I actually got great results from the Hornaday line. Seeing as I have this weekend off, I'll head on into the city and see what the shops have for other powders and projectiles. As far as a fall back, I guess there is always the 55gr's.

 

[Joe King]

Ok good you've got a good start. One thing you can do is go here Reloader's Nest Forum and look in the rifle loads section. Mind you take some of the loads you see on forums with a large grain of salt and always cross reference them with a loading manual appropriate to the bullet your using, you can also go to the website of the power manufactures, they usually have loading data available.

I just looked in my range book I played around a little with the 87gr vmax, using Ramshot Biggame. Actually it was just 5rnds of one load, my charge was 38.5gr and a CCI200, it produced 1moa right off the bat, I haven't messed with it since that day but I was left with the feeling that it had possibilities. This is the load I tried http://reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=5&BulletWeight=87&LoadID=10980

At any rate it sounds like your on the right track just need to try some different components

Oh hell here. Have fun!
http://reloadersnest.com/query_bw.asp?CaliberID=5&BulletWeight=87

 

[SaskShooter]

You may have to just choose a different bullet or powder.

And since we're on the topic, my current load is a 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip Boattail over 40.0 grains of Varget seated to 2.690" with a WLR primer, it's exact same load as I had used with the Berger bullets just substituting Noslers instead.

 

[1tonpower]

I must just be luck.. He is my results after my first batch of test loads.. I haven't gotten a chance to load again since but I'm looking forward to it

This load came from hornadys book and was listed as max

This one I got from reloadersnest and I was able to duplicate the .7 group that the poster reported.. Both loads I started lower and worked up.

 

[johnnyk]

I have never had great accuracy with Hornady's VMax bullets. By great I mean less than .4". The Nosler Ballistic Tip has been much more user friendly and I feel it's because of the bullets ogive. I have shot quiet a few of the VMax's in various calibers and weights but alway go back to something that's dead-nuts accurate. That helps when trying to spatter small critters at long range.
I have probably tried the majority of powders available on the shelf today. My current .243 (Win70 HVB) likes the 85gn range of pills with IMR4831 (42.5-44.5gn) and CCI BR2's. I shoot alot of the 90-95gn Ballistic Tips. Viht N560 has produced superb accuracy with this range of bullets, 44.0-44.5gn of powder and CCI BR2's. My current load is with 90gn Ballistic Tips, 44.0gn of H4350 and BR2's(I use these primers almost exclusively).
All the loads listed are right at book max, so work up in your rifle, looking for pressure and be careful. JohnnyK.

 

[Team Roper]

My 243 will only shoot varget. I thought I would burn the barrel up trying to get it to shoot. Try different powders and bullets until you find a combo that works

 

[roninflag]

What he said ^
could also be that your rifle just doesn't like the load.
Try this load and see how it works for you (I've used it quite a bit)
85gr sierra HPBT, 37.3gr IMR 4064 and a CCI200.
It's strait out of the Sierra manual about 3100fps.
If it works then you'll have one to fall back on while you continue to learn with other loads.

i have several .243's if they ALL SHOOT the above load very very well. use varget or I4064 ; lapua brass and an 85 , 87 or 88. AWESOME out of my remingtons and sakos.

 

[northernexposure]

Well, after a sleepless night and much thought, it came to me... in the past, using factory loads, I always got my best performance from a maximum of 80gr's. It didn't matter the brand, it just seemed the rifle liked that specific weight of projectile. If I went heavier, everything went to hell in a hand basket.
With that being said, I went to the Nosler site and looked at the load sheets they had for an 80gr. Think I'm gonna try the 80gr Ballistic tip Varmint using the prescribed load of the H 380 (seeing as I have that powder already). I don't recall if they gave specifics for a primer... but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

 

[northernexposure]

UPDATE:
Well, went to town and talked with the store that sold me the rifle. Explained to them the issue and all the variables I could think of. Seems that I'm not the only one with that issue... Not many do have that issue, but it has been brought up.
I did get the supplies and I also bought a box of factory 80gr's... just to prove to myself that it would work.
I went through the box of factory rounds shooting groups of three at a time and got decent results.
Tried the Nosler's 80gr ballistic tips using the recipe of 39.5 gr's of H380 and got what I was looking for. All shots were rite where I had the hairs (within a half inch @ 100 yds, bi-pod only and no bagging). So it seems that my rifle doesn't like heavy rounds.... Now to figure out why!
Any ideas?

 

[SaskShooter]

It's probably just "Barrel harmonics". Also known as "The barrel like what the barrel likes and hates what it hates."

Harmonics is really just a hair away from Voodoo...