208 ELDM versus 208 AMAX 1006 yard drop comparison

[Michael Eichele]

Got out to the 1k yard range yesterday. While my primary reason for going wasn't to test the 208s I decided to take one 3 shot group of each. All 6 were shot over the chronograph and both groups averaged only 2FPS apart (single digit spreads). Please note that I did not shoot one group of each at my zero range but I'm assuming both groups would have been on zero or extremely close as other 200 to 210 grain loads are always right in near the same spot. What I can say is that the ELDM group was about 10" higher at 1006 yards than the AMAX group. Groups were on the larger side due to some breeze (AMAX was 13" wide and 3-1/2 tall). The ELDM group was a bit tighter (10" wide and also a bit less than 4" tall). Group centers were used for measuring between groups. They were very defined triangular groups.

I don't want to rush to conclusions based on 3 bullets each and not having compared zero between the two but it's a start. Enough to want to continue working with them. Between the two being so dimensionally close to identical, and the average velocity between groups being virtually identical, I'm reasonably confident that the ELDM has a higher BC and 10" of drop between two different bullets of equal weight and dimensions is very significant. Unfortunately, it only equates to 2" of windage benefit at 10 MPH and only 15 foot pounds of energy at a grand.

2611 FPS was the average of all 6. My FTR rig was used for this experiment. 26" 5R Bartlein 11.25x in an A5. NXS 5.5-22x. Was shot off a bench with a Phoenix Precision FTR bipod and rear bag.

 

[tbrice23]

Michael, was this 308 winchester or 300wsm?
FTR as 308 I'm assuming thats smoking fast, unless you have a 30" pipe.

I know its only 3 shots but just under 1moa at a grand for the ELD, I like it.

 

[Michael Eichele]

Michael, was this 308 winchester or 300wsm?
FTR as 308 I'm assuming thats smoking fast, unless you have a 30" pipe.

I know its only 3 shots but just under 1moa at a grand for the ELD, I like it.

Yes 308 Win. Yes it's smoking. The key is: a long throat, long COAL and slower powder.

 

[tbrice23]

N160, h4350 ?

 

[Michael Eichele]

n160, h4350 ?

h4350.

 

[Bravo 4]

Please note that I did not shoot one group of each at my zero range but I'm assuming both groups would have been on zero or extremely close as other 200 to 210 grain loads are always right in near the same spot..

I always respect your posts as you are experienced and knowledgeable, but the statement above negates everything else you wrote. If you don't know that both loads have the same POI at zero range then there was no findings whatsoever.
Unless I'm missing something.

 

[Michael Eichele]

I always respect your posts as you are experienced and knowledgeable, but the statement above negates everything else you wrote. If you don't know that both loads have the same POI at zero range then there was no findings whatsoever.
Unless I'm missing something.

Exactly. That's what I said "I don't want to rush to conclusions". Since I know my rifle intimately, I am confident they will be on the same poi but since I didn't verify it (which I openly admitted), I won't say for a fact that the ELDM is better. At this point, it's enough to raise suspicion that it's consisten with Hornady's findings and enough to pursue a more thorough test.

 

[gohring3006]

Tagging in, I'm interested in the lower velocity test your are doing.
I run them in 30-06. Hornady stated the tip didn't erode until it reached a fairly high velocity for a extended time. It's hard to believe they are exactly the same bullet with a new tip, and if it doesn't erode at lower velocity, you would think the BC would be the same or close at those velocities...
Interesting...
I haven't had time to test them past 100 yards or even Chrony them yet...

 

[Nomosendero]

Got out to the 1k yard range yesterday. While my primary reason for going wasn't to test the 208s I decided to take one 3 shot group of each. All 6 were shot over the chronograph and both groups averaged only 2FPS apart (single digit spreads). Please note that I did not shoot one group of each at my zero range but I'm assuming both groups would have been on zero or extremely close as other 200 to 210 grain loads are always right in near the same spot. What I can say is that the ELDM group was about 10" higher at 1006 yards than the AMAX group. Groups were on the larger side due to some breeze (AMAX was 13" wide and 3-1/2 tall). The ELDM group was a bit tighter (10" wide and also a bit less than 4" tall). Group centers were used for measuring between groups. They were very defined triangular groups.

I don't want to rush to conclusions based on 3 bullets each and not having compared zero between the two but it's a start. Enough to want to continue working with them. Between the two being so dimensionally close to identical, and the average velocity between groups being virtually identical, I'm reasonably confident that the ELDM has a higher BC and 10" of drop between two different bullets of equal weight and dimensions is very significant. Unfortunately, it only equates to 2" of windage benefit at 10 MPH and only 15 foot pounds of energy at a grand.

2611 FPS was the average of all 6. My FTR rig was used for this experiment. 26" 5R Bartlein 11.25x in an A5. NXS 5.5-22x. Was shot off a bench with a Phoenix Precision FTR bipod and rear bag.

Maybe I need to go back to read, but concerning the problem (real or not) with the tips, didn't this occur with higher velocity rounds than you stated, separate matter than BC ratings?

 

[Michael Eichele]

I always respect your posts as you are experienced and knowledgeable, but the statement above negates everything else you wrote. If you don't know that both loads have the same POI at zero range then there was no findings whatsoever.
Unless I'm missing something.

Attached is a POI reference between the AMAX and ELDX I shot this morning. Granted, I left my scope zeroed for another load so these aren't on the middle of the target but it does illustrate that their POIs are identical. This is 6 bullets at 300 yards. These were shot in an every other fashion. 1st one was an AMAX, the second was an ELDM and so on. The first two shots were about an inch apart at the same elevation. Since the difference was so defined at a grand, I would have expected to see some vertical dispersion but they're dead equal 300. BTW, disregard the 3 shot group to the upper right. This is another load from an unrelated test. The 6 on the bottom center are the AMAX's and ELDM's. These 6 have the same load specs. Same cases, powder lot, charge weights, primers and base to ogive length and velocities were within the normal spread.

 

[Bravo 4]

Good deal, sorry I ever doubted you.

The difference in listed BC's would probably account for close to 1/2 the poi difference at that range. Have you ever tested the BC of the Amax with your rifle? If the Amax was a little lower than listed and the ELD was a little higher then that alone could make almost 1 moa difference at 1000 yards.

 

[elkaholic]

Michael....this is a little off topic but have you measured the diameter of your ELDM's? We are finding quite a few over size ELDX bullets in the 143 6.5's. They are either all oversize in a particular lot, or all to spec, which makes sense.......Rich

Good test by the way.