168 VLD vs 162 A-max in 7 SAUM

[Doghunter23]

I am doing Load Development on my new 7 Saum. My initial results are very encouraging I am getting just over 1/3 moa at 300 yds out of both the 168 Berger and 162 A-Max during my first round of testing starting at a minimum book recommended charge and only changing seating depth, ironically only the A-max liked to be jammed BTW.
My question is assuming I can get them both to perform sub 1/4 minute after I find my accuracy node which bullet should I go with for use on deer sized game over 1K?
The bullets I chose will be the ones I go with as I plan on getting a thousand and sort by bearing surface.
Thanks

 

[elkaholic]

I am doing Load Development on my new 7 Saum. My initial results are very encouraging I am getting just over 1/3 moa at 300 yds out of both the 168 Berger and 162 A-Max during my first round of testing starting at a minimum book recommended charge and only changing seating depth, ironically only the A-max liked to be jammed BTW.
My question is assuming I can get them both to perform sub 1/4 minute after I find my accuracy node which bullet should I go with for use on deer sized game over 1K?
The bullets I chose will be the ones I go with as I plan on getting a thousand and sort by bearing surface.
Thanks

If your question is which bullet is most likely to expand at that range, it is the a-max even though the Berger would have slightly more velocity. Beyond that, I have no comment......Rich

 

[Doghunter23]

Thanks for the Reply Rich,

I'm somewhat new to the long range game. I was thinking maybe I should invest in a quality Chronograph. And let the lowest ES load make the decision for me. I live in Illinois so until the corn is out of the fields I am limited to 500 yards at my local range, so I can't do any real long range load testing

 

[Salar600]

I don't know if this information will help you but last year I shot a 200 lbs deer with this caliber / bullet combination at 450yds. Vel 2990fps.

Even if it was a klean kill I was not impressed by the bullet performance. Peraps it was a good boiler room shot cause penetration was marginal and the bullet a total expention/fragmentation. I think that if I had hit the sholder it might have ended with a lost deer.

I am a Hornady fan and I know many guns shoot them at games but I will use an other bullet next time.

By the way I have no experiance with the 168 VLD

Just my 2 cents.

 

[roninflag]

Dog- i only have experience with the berger, out to 600 yards. it worked good. that is great accuracy. what rifle?

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Ive had god luck with the a-max on deer and bear out of the Creedmoor. All were DRT. I just picked up a box of 162 a-max for my 7mm RM. Dont have any experience with the bergers.

 

[Doghunter23]

I don't know if this information will help you but last year I shot a 200 lbs deer with this caliber / bullet combination at 450yds. Vel 2990fps.

Even if it was a klean kill I was not impressed by the bullet performance. Peraps it was a good boiler room shot cause penetration was marginal and the bullet a total expention/fragmentation. I think that if I had hit the sholder it might have ended with a lost deer.

I am a Hornady fan and I know many guns shoot them at games but I will use an other bullet next time.

By the way I have no experiance with the 168 VLD

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks, one of my concerns was if the A-max would have a surface expansion/ fragmentation which would end in a lost deer.

 

[Doghunter23]

Dog- i only have experience with the berger, out to 600 yards. it worked good. that is great accuracy. what rifle?

roninflag,
I have a Borden Accuracy magnum long action, 29'' heart 1 in 9 twist heart barrel, Borden break, jewl trigger (8oz), Mcmillan A5 stock, and a +20 MOA rail.
The rifle kicks like a 223.
I am now waiting on new glass before I do further load development, My 12X Burris does the rifle no justice at distance.
The long action allows me to load the rounds as long as I want in the SAUM

 

[elkaholic]

We have killed deer and black bear with the 140 A-max in the 6.5 Sherman with no problems. What is left of the bullet is usually found under, or near the hide, on the far side......Rich

 

[trebark]

Your plan is to shoot deer at 1k?? My recommendation would be to go with the Berger 180grain hybrid. The 168/162 grain bullets are great inside 600 yards but when the distances start to get long, the BC of the 180 really starts to shine. A buddy of mine has a 7saum built on a short action. With Retumbo, he is able to send them at 2900 out of a 26" barrel. http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f53/my-7saum-hawk-hill-custom-135561/ sends the 180s at 3000+. We know from many experiences related on this forum that the Berger hybrids are excellent hunting bullets.

 

[Doghunter23]

Your plan is to shoot deer at 1k?? My recommendation would be to go with the Berger 180grain hybrid. The 168/162 grain bullets are great inside 600 yards but when the distances start to get long, the BC of the 180 really starts to shine. A buddy of mine has a 7saum built on a short action. With Retumbo, he is able to send them at 2900 out of a 26" barrel. http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f53/my-7saum-hawk-hill-custom-135561/ sends the 180s at 3000+. We know from many experiences related on this forum that the Berger hybrids are excellent hunting bullets.

I wish they performed better in my rifle! I originally had in mind the 180 VLD, I haven't tried the 180 hybrid as of yet. In my initial testing of the 180 VLD my best accuracy was only 1/2 MOA at 300 yds, and that was at 120 tho off the lands. I feel loading them near book COL would limit my velocity potential, and thereby limit my finding an upper accuracy Node. However they're not out of the running yet, but I will have to find a real sweet spot for them to be considered. Whereas the A-max shot nearly 1/3 moa jammed 4 tho, which opens up for some real velocity potential.
also the A-max had near zero vertical dispersion.
My concern with the hybrid was that I would only have marginal stability in the bullet out of a 1 in 9 twist tube, per Berger's twist rate calculator.
(I think my next barrel will be a 1 in 8.25 or 8)
my guess is that this particular heart likes the lighter pills!
maybe I should look at the hybrid tho as I have heard they are easier to tune?

 

[elkaholic]

I wish they performed better in my rifle! I originally had in mind the 180 VLD, I haven't tried the 180 hybrid as of yet. In my initial testing of the 180 VLD my best accuracy was only 1/2 MOA at 300 yds, and that was at 120 tho off the lands. I feel loading them near book COL would limit my velocity potential, and thereby limit my finding an upper accuracy Node. However they're not out of the running yet, but I will have to find a real sweet spot for them to be considered. Whereas the A-max shot nearly 1/3 moa jammed 4 tho, which opens up for some real velocity potential.
also the A-max had near zero vertical dispersion.
My concern with the hybrid was that I would only have marginal stability in the bullet out of a 1 in 9 twist tube, per Berger's twist rate calculator.
(I think my next barrel will be a 1 in 8.25 or 8)
my guess is that this particular heart likes the lighter pills!
maybe I should look at the hybrid tho as I have heard they are easier to tune?

The Hybrids should shoot well within .020" or closer of the lands and they MAY perform on game even better than the VLD's.......Rich

 

[trebark]

1:9 twist will DEFINITELY stabilize the 180s. I say that because among my friends we have multiple 7mm rifles that are all 1:9 and all of them shoot the 180s just fine.

I would definitely encourage you to experiment with the hybrids. They are not nearly as finnicky on seating depth as the VLDs.

When gauging accuracy, the difference between .3 accuracy and .5 accuracy is so minimal, I wouldn't even worry about it. If it will shoot .5moa, you've got a good load. What would be more important is ES. Get a chronograph and find a load that will shoot with low ES.

Also, don't get too hung up on velocity too much though. There's no big difference between 2950 and 3000fps.

 

[trebark]

The Hybrids should shoot well within .020" or closer of the lands and they MAY perform on game even better than the VLD's.......Rich

MAY??

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/comparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybrid-88657/

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/berger-230-300-otm-hybrid-terminal-results-80283/