I seriously doubt this is case head separation but what do you guys think?

timberelk said:

I also noticed a small intent in 5 if the 20 cases. Not sure where these intent came from. They weren't like this when I loaded them up

Click to expand...

Question, were you using ball powder?
You need to clean the chamber and remove what is stuck in the chamber.
This has happened to me with workup loads of ball powder and unburnt powder in the chamber.
It has also happened to me in very cold weather at the range with frozen condensation in the chamber.

bigedp51 said:

Question, were you using ball powder?
You need to clean the chamber and remove what is stuck in the chamber.

Click to expand...

I was using varget. I also shot 4 factory loaded Hornady ELDx percision hunter

if this is new brass , you really can't bump the shoulder back .002 on the first reload , the brass is not fully expanded yet . it usually takes 2 or 3 firings to get the brass fully expanded , the brass will start to get tight to chamber . then you can set up your die to bump the shoulder .002 . until your brass gets tight to chamber you need to neck size . if you don't have a neck size die you can back off a full length die 1/2 turn from contacting the shellholder , this will raise the die about .035 . this should size most of the neck and not size the body .

jimbires said:

if this is new brass , you really can't bump the shoulder back .002 on the first reload , the brass is not fully expanded yet . it usually takes 2 or 3 firings to get the brass fully expanded , the brass will start to get tight to chamber . then you can set up your die to bump the shoulder .002 . until your brass gets tight to chamber you need to neck size . if you don't have a neck size die you can back off a full length die 1/2 turn from contacting the shellholder , this will raise the die about .035 . this should size most of the neck and not size the body .

Click to expand...

This gun will be used for hunting, and will always need to cycle that's why I'm hesitant to neck size but thanks for the idea!

timberelk said:

I also noticed a small intent in 5 if the 20 cases. Not sure where these intent came from. They weren't like this when I loaded them up

Click to expand...

Looks like a lube dent. Keep your dies cleaned out good to keep from lube buildup or dust or any type of debris in the die that could cause dents like that.

timberelk said:

I just tried this on a few random cases and couldn't see anything abnormal (no shinny ring or indent) but the inside of the case is coated with the powder residue so it all just looks light black inside the case

Click to expand...

You'll see a shadowed circular ring where the inner wall is cupped concave. A circular ring which is shadowed, whether the interior is clean or dirty. It's very obvious if the case head is anywhere near separation. Course I've observed it many times, in all degrees. Know what it looks like, and how significant it is with respect to separation.

timberelk said:

This gun will be used for hunting, and will always need to cycle that's why I'm hesitant to neck size but thanks for the idea!

Click to expand...

I suggest you neck size only 2 or 4 times to get the brass fully expanded , the brass will start to get tight to chamber at this point . THEN you will be able to set your full length die up to bump the shoulder back about .002 . UNTIL you get the brass fully expanded you will never get the results you're looking for .

what you're doing now is firing new brass . it's expanding lets say .010 over virgin brass , but it's also contracting , lets say .005 . now your bumping the shoulder back .002 on brass that's already .005 short . if you necked sized a couple times the brass will stay fully expanded at the .010 longer . now you can bump the shoulder .002 and get stable brass sizes . you'll only need to do this on a few pieces of brass , I usually do 5 pieces . after you get your die set on fully expanded brass , you can size all the brass . hope this makes sense to you .
an easy way to bump shoulders is by using redding competition shell holder sets .

timberelk said:

I'm going to cut one open tomorrow after work and take a look at it!

So you're saying trim the brass to the max overall brass length (2.035") instead of trimming to 2.025" so the brass can't exoand any further?

Click to expand...

Cutting it open will end all doubt as to whether or not it is thinning. Hopefully it wont be, but at least you will know.

Also keep the cases trimmed to proper length or you may/will increase the pressure by not having neck clearance to the end of the chamber.
I recommend sizing only enough to chamber the round "No More". If fired cases will chamber with little or no effort, neck size only until they become hard to chamber. (Or at least until you know for sure that they are not thinning in the web).

Cases get thicker as they get closer to the web (Back) and normally remain this way because the thinner brass is forward and this is where the normal growth in length comes from that has to be trimmed.

The other possibility is that your chamber is slightly larger than the brass/case in this area and the die is having to size more than normal to return it is SAMME specifications an is leaving an abraded mark in this area. You can measure a fired case before it is sized in this area
and this should also tell you something.

I would do both, because one has nothing to do with the other in cause but the appearance would/could be similar. If the web is stretching, It is cause by excessive head space or over sizing (Or Both) and can lead to problems.

J E CUSTOM

jimbires said:

I suggest you neck size only 2 or 4 times to get the brass fully expanded , the brass will start to get tight to chamber at this point . THEN you will be able to set your full length die up to bump the shoulder back about .002 . UNTIL you get the brass fully expanded you will never get the results you're looking for .

what you're doing now is firing new brass . it's expanding lets say .010 over virgin brass , but it's also contracting , lets say .005 . now your bumping the shoulder back .002 on brass that's already .005 short . if you necked sized a couple times the brass will stay fully expanded at the .010 longer . now you can bump the shoulder .002 and get stable brass sizes . you'll only need to do this on a few pieces of brass , I usually do 5 pieces . after you get your die set on fully expanded brass , you can size all the brass . hope this makes sense to you .
an easy way to bump shoulders is by using redding competition shell holder sets .

Click to expand...

Ok so just so I'm understanding... I need to expand the brass fully by firing and then set the die to only bump the should back .002?

Can't I take the brass I just fired a few days ago and slowly spin the die down to get to the point where I barely bump the shoulder back?

Barrelnut said:

That is normal for all resized brass. Put your calipers right at that ring line and measure. Next put your calipers right at bottom of the dull area. You will probably find a .002 difference. All of this happens because the dull section at the very bottom is the thick part of the brass called the web. It doesn't expand like the rest of the sides of the case and the dies never touch it when you run the brass thru the die. If you ever start to see a very thin shiny ring about .100 up from the current line you are talking about, that will be a case separation starting.

Look like those are 308 cases? that type case has a shallow 20% shoulder angle angle. This allows the brass to flow a lot toward the neck when you FL size the case. The the expander ball can pull the neck longer too when the expander exits the neck and exasperate things. This is probably why the overall length is growing 005-.010 each time. Bumping the shoulder back too far causes more of this too. Just try to bump the shoulder back about .002

Click to expand...

Barrelnut with the win!!!^^^

This normal and more pronounced in certain brands.
I see it in Win brass often no matter the cartridge.

gohring3006 said:

Barrelnut with the win!!!^^^

This normal and more pronounced in certain brands.
I see it in Win brass often no matter the cartridge.

Click to expand...

I agree ,looks like the area of the case that expands and grips the chamber

So besides bumping the shoulder back around .002, that's all I can do other than just dealing with the .005-.010" Case increase each time the case is fired?

And should I trim the case only back to 2.033 ish? Max length is 2.025 and min is 2.035

timberelk said:

So besides bumping the shoulder back around .002, that's all I can do other than just dealing with the .005-.010" Case increase each time the case is fired?

And should I trim the case only back to 2.033 ish? Max length is 2.025 and min is 2.035

Click to expand...

Bumping the shoulder Only increases the head space compounding the problem if it is case stretch in the web area. If it is just the chamber that is bigger, you can use normal loading practices.

It is normal for some case designs to grow in length 4 or 5 thousandths each time they are fired, But 10 thousandths is a bit much.

Hear is a link to some examples of case head separation. scroll down until you see the cases that have been sectioned and you can see what it looks like on the inside near the web.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cas...r=1.5#imgrc=ZBC3zU7zYsb-6M:&spf=1519320844481

J E CUSTOM

J E Custom said:

Bumping the shoulder Only increases the head space compounding the problem if it is case stretch in the web area. If it is just the chamber that is bigger, you can use normal loading practices.

It is normal for some case designs to grow in length 4 or 5 thousandths each time they are fired, But 10 thousandths is a bit much.

Hear is a link to some examples of case head separation. scroll down until you see the cases that have been sectioned and you can see what it looks like on the inside near the web.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cas...r=1.5#imgrc=ZBC3zU7zYsb-6M:&spf=1519320844481

J E CUSTOM

Click to expand...

I will cut one case open and check mine out. Are you thinking I have head soar issues? How would I know if I have head space issues vs a large chamber?