How long for a custom build?

[blipelt]

Actually the waits aren't as bad as one might think:

I ordered a left hand drop port Defiance action/base on 1-25-12 and recieved it at the end of March.

Bill Shehane got me a MBR tracker stock in my choice of color the beginning of April.

The barrel blank, and trigger I got from sponsors on 6mmbr.com who had them in stock.

I had the rifle in 4.5months and it shoots .5" five shot group at 200yds from a benchrest gunsmith, I learned there is a difference.

My question is when a smith gets the money for components do they use it for that cutsomers components and order at the time of the payment or wait?

Brent

 

[WildRose]

Actually the waits aren't as bad as one might think:

I ordered a left hand drop port Defiance action/base on 1-25-12 and recieved it at the end of March.

Bill Shehane got me a MBR tracker stock in my choice of color the beginning of April.

The barrel blank, and trigger I got from sponsors on 6mmbr.com who had them in stock.

I had the rifle in 4.5months and it shoots .5" five shot group at 200yds from a benchrest gunsmith, I learned there is a difference.

My question is when a smith gets the money for components do they use it for that cutsomers components and order at the time of the payment or wait?

Brent

That's going to depend on who is doing the build. We'd like to think they would all go ahead and place the order's immediately but then a great many factors could come into play whereby they wouldn't/couldn't.

If for example they are two years behind they very well might not place the order until six months before they anticipated being ready to start on yours simply to avoid filling up limited space with components they won't use for a year or more.

Such questions can only be answered by whomever you choose to do your build.

 

[blipelt]

WildRose, you are correct. I have built many rifles and had some good and bad experiences. Unfortunately we are always waiting on components. If the components are ordered with the customers money at the time of payment, and backordered I can understand. But ordered six months before the the anticipated build and then waiting.The customer ends up paying full price and waiting sometimes several months extra on top of it and this is acceptable?

I have had a smith order me a Mcmillan stock and wait six months for it. When 3rd Generation had the same stock with LOP feature in a different color for less money than I paid?????

Basically what I am getting at is some of the issues that caused me to change the way I have rifles built. Get your own components on hand and then look for your smith. The smith doesn't have anything invested until the work is done. Won't have huge amounts of components in the shop. The customer has nothing to complain about since they have the components and have paid the smith nothing until the work is complete. More people treat building rifles as a buddy/buddy thing rather than a business venture. More often it caused me to bite my lip rather than address the issues I saw.

Brent

 

[WildRose]

WildRose, you are correct. I have built many rifles and had some good and bad experiences. Unfortunately we are always waiting on components. If the components are ordered with the customers money at the time of payment, and backordered I can understand. But ordered six months before the the anticipated build and then waiting.The customer ends up paying full price and waiting sometimes several months extra on top of it and this is acceptable?

I have had a smith order me a Mcmillan stock and wait six months for it. When 3rd Generation had the same stock with LOP feature in a different color for less money than I paid?????

Basically what I am getting at is some of the issues that caused me to change the way I have rifles built. Get your own components on hand and then look for your smith. The smith doesn't have anything invested until the work is done. Won't have huge amounts of components in the shop. The customer has nothing to complain about since they have the components and have paid the smith nothing until the work is complete. More people treat building rifles as a buddy/buddy thing rather than a business venture. More often it caused me to bite my lip rather than address the issues I saw.

Brent

Makes perfect sense but then we come to the bottom line. If you hire a smith to put it all together for you and expect him to gurantee the accuracy one is well advised to sit down with the smith of choice before you even start ordering parts so that you and they agree on the components to be used. If you are expecting someone to gurantee their work they've got to be in on it from the initial planning phase onward.

If it were me that's how I'd approach it at least. I don't have the money to get a full custom done but I have a couple of friends who are excellet smiths so I just start talking to them a year or more ahead of time and let them guide me through the process. I've got a couple of builds/upgrades in progress right now and that's how I've approached it.

 

[blipelt]

Great points WildRose, another is you getting components you are accepting the responsibility that they work together for your goal. Ex. you are building a 7wsm throated for 180's you better know what bottom metal to have if it is a repeater or build on a long action.

I guess it all depends on your background/Occupation. In my occupation timelines and planning is critical.

Brent

 

[midnightmalloy]

Great points WildRose, another is you getting components you are accepting the responsibility that they work together for your goal. Ex. you are building a 7wsm throated for 180's you better know what bottom metal to have if it is a repeater or build on a long action.

I guess it all depends on your background/Occupation. In my occupation timelines and planning is critical.

Brent

The problem i see is that most custom gunsmiths great machinist but they are not businessmen. Most dont understand that a custom gun build is like a project in the business world and these smiths should be using project management strategies and tools such as microsoft project. Unfortunatly most just shoot from the hip and just give a "best guess" and not an educated estimate. I think that if most of these guys had a businessman help them it would work out better for everyone.

 

[bigbuck]

As far as actual machine time and bedding you are talking about two weeks +/-.

Next scenario= if you furnish everything needed to the smith add the 2 weeks to his back log
and that should get you close.

The third scenario= if he has to order a barrel and/or a stock you can figure 3 Months + 2 weeks.

If he has lots of work and does nor manage his time well or do every ones project in the order
of placement it can be a year or more.

The best way to expedite your rifle build is to talk to the preferred Smith and have all of your
componants in hand, get him to give you a schedule, and DONT GIVE HIM ALL THE MONEY
up front. (This takes away the incentive for him to finish on time).

If he will not take partial payment with the other half upon completion, "RUN". I just finished
a rifle for someone that was in the gunsmiths shop for over 7 years, (He paid everything up front)
and when he went to pick it up and did not have a receipt to prove he had paid in advance
he couldn't recover any of his money.

A smith can't lose if you furnish everything because if you back out and he has started or
completed it he has the rifle and can recover his money buy selling it.

So the answer is what ever you agree on with the smith that he will honor

J E CUSTOM

"DON'T GIVE HIM ALL THE MONEY"

Very good advice in any buisness transaction ! I frame houses and install metal roofs, and siding . I never ask for all of the money up front. most of the time I don't ask for a dime until I am finished with the job. I feel this helps the customer to completely trust that I will do exactly what I say after all he is holding all the money. I was told 7 months the other day.

 

[WildRose]

Great points WildRose, another is you getting components you are accepting the responsibility that they work together for your goal. Ex. you are building a 7wsm throated for 180's you better know what bottom metal to have if it is a repeater or build on a long action.

I guess it all depends on your background/Occupation. In my occupation timelines and planning is critical.

Brent

I certainly understand the timeline issue. I don't much have that problem any more. If something comes up where I suddenly get invited on a hunt to go after any game species I already have a weapon ready to go; unless perhaps it was for an emergency rhino, cape buff, or elephant... LOL

To me though the bottom line is pick a gunsmith and then sit down with them and discuss the project before you buy anything unless you are for example fixed on a certain action. Then pick a gunsmith that works with that action and let them be part of the rest of the process of putting all the components together if you expect them to gurantee the accuracy of the final product.

 

[phpd1295]

If the customer provides "everything", including the receiver, a 'gunsmith' can not sell that fiream as there is no transfer of ownership in this situation. It does not belong to the gunsmith, it still belongs to the customer. The law (and ATFE) would consider that "stealing/selling a stolen firearm". A gunsmith can loose! Keep a good 'paper trail'(e-mails, notes included with parts shipments) so no one gets hurt. He's trusting you to follow through on your end, as much as you are trusting him to supply you with what you asked for!

Actually you can sell a gun that a customer leaves and doesn't pay. At least in Texas you can. First you have to send the usual demand letters for payment via certified mail. Wait a minimum of 10 days then start proceedings in small claims court (Justice of the Peace in Texas). The court will serve them a summons to go to court and if they are not local then you have to put notice in the local paper where they reside or where you last knew them to reside. If they do not show then you win buy default and the court can and will award you the gun if what they owe is over the value of the gun. It is just like doing a mechanics lien for work done on a car by a mechanic. Once you get the court order awarding you the gun you can get a FFL to transfer ownership.

 

[jsthntn247]

I just had a custom done by a hall of fame benchrest shooter. He charged double what most folks do to chamber but he had the barrel I wanted on his shelf. it shoots groups in the .2's and I got it back in 1 week. I came out ok I think. For future hunting builds it will be savage actions and barrel nuts for me though, customs are too **** expensive just for hunting. I have a stock Stevens that I spent 249 on and it will shoot under .5 any day with hand loads after it was bedded.

 

[C.O. Shooter]

This is my opinion only and my current situation, I am not all for a speedy build. I would rather it take longer for a build, than to rush through it. I'm not saying the outcome will not be the same, but rather a smith take their time. I agree with FiftyDriver on reputation of the builder and backlog situations. Prior to undergoing my build, I was informed of the time frames and expressed no immediate rush. I sent or had delivered all components of my rifle to my builders. The barrel had to be ordered through Brux with a custom "B" measurement. I made some changes throughout the way by adding a muzzle brake and thread cap. So to each their own I guess!

 

[ccsykes]

It also depends on what happens during the build. Things can come up that throw a monkey wrench in the entire ordeal. I have had a build going on for a while and several unforeseen things occurred that were not responsibility of the smith or myself. If you are going the custom route, expect delays, it's the hurry up and wait game. In the end, it is always well worth the wait and I cannot wait until I get my new platform.

 

[yobuck]

I'm curious as to that the average time for a custom build is assuming a few factors:

1. You are using a reputable well reviewed gunsmith
2. You deliver all the parts necessary to complete the build at the same time so there's no waiting on parts
3. You are using realtively common caliber so no wait on a reamer
4. You use common actions so blue printing isn't unusual
5. You want relatively common tasks completed - true action, cut, chamber, thread and crown barrel, tune trigger, glass bed and free float barreled action and coat the action with coating of your choice.

What do you think is the norm?

any palm trees where you live scout?

 

[Willys46]

Like others have said, you can supply everything and still be out 9-12 months. I have been down this road.

Just a thought, go to your local gun club and see if they have a Long or short range benchrest club. If they do more than likely one of the guys shooting is a very good gunsmith that dose all the work for the people. He usually dose it for Fun and is not trying to make a living out of it..aka retired. He will usually only take work that he wants and if you **** and moan he will likely not take your work.

These guys will turn stuff around in days not weeks. They may not be top name guys, but their guns on the line are shorting 1.5" groups at 600.

If you find that guy, treat him fair, he will be a life saver! Like install a m16 extractor why you wait!

Do you leg work and you will be surprised who is right in your back yard.

The top guys are there for a reason and the deserve what they have, but they were that local guy doing local work once.

By the way, when you find him.....Don't tell anyone or he will get back logged!

Willys46