How far to kill an elk with a .243?

mnoland30 said:
I like your answer Woolecox, but I've seen too many young hunters buy a magnum that they can't control. Blowing off a front leg doesn't kill an elk cleanly. I shoot a lightly loaded 7mm WSM for elk, but I shoot my 7-30 Waters much better. Most hunters on this forum can probably handle some recoil, but there's a reason bench rest shooters are moving to 6 and 6.5 mm guns. Recoil adds up.

Today's copper and bonded bullets are much better than the ones we could buy when I was young. That makes a smaller caliber more effective, because of the retained weight and controlled expansion.
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quite franky if they cant handle a magnum than they cant handle a lighter cal either the operation is identical. an elks hide is 1/4" thick their bones are stronger than 2x4s. anyone thying to take one down with less than 1500 ft/lbs will more than likely end up chasing it for miles. at long range it takes a magnum to deliver that type of energygun) if they cant handle recoil they should stick to close range
 
load said:
quite franky if they cant handle a magnum than they cant handle a lighter cal either the operation is identical. an elks hide is 1/4" thick their bones are stronger than 2x4s. anyone thying to take one down with less than 1500 ft/lbs will more than likely end up chasing it for miles. at long range it takes a magnum to deliver that type of energygun) if they cant handle recoil they should stick to close range
Click to expand...

Agreed 100%.
Shooting skills are the same. Results may be more exagerated in "big magnums" because of poor shooting skills, but that's why they made muzle breaks. Recoil is now a non issue if you choose to use a break.

I understand many folks can, & have done amazing things with tools that left them lacking, but come on. Momentum is a BIG factor when a bullet contacts resistance. A 243 has almost none at that range. Energy is energy, is energy, but it doesn't do anything for you if your bullet expells all of its energy in the first fraction of contact. The bullet just doesn't have any *** to it to have momentum.
If you must Elk hunt with a pea shooter, keep the range realistic, or you WILL have trouble sooner than later. If you want to Elk hunt at long range, have the tools, as well as the skills to do it. Having one without the other just doesn't cut it.
 
I'm guessing you're both under the age of 35 based on your views. The younger folks seem less aware of the capibilities and have been brainwashed in to thinking a magnum is needed for everything. :)

I can tell you which gun writers started the crazy. I guess it is okay, but it is a shame the young folks don't really know what their guns will do.

It very much reminds me of the 223 isn't big enough for deer thread. Folks get down right mad when people ask about it, yet it is the prefered choice by those who get paid to thin the herd and kill hundreds if not thousands every year.

It would do the young guys and gals good to study history and learn about the calibers people used 50 to 100 years ago. The 243 looks like a super magnum compared to most all of them. Read up on calibers used by market hunters to shoot deer at long range. They were barely more then pistol calibers. Heck I've shot deer at a couple hundred yeards with open sited pistols in straight wall cartridges and the bullet went clear through and out the other side. We read abotu folks using them out to 600 yards and thought nothing of shooting deer 200 or 300 yards away.

Back then people used the 243 on elk and moose on a regular bases and no one thought it was too little. People understood how their bullets were made and knew how they performed at all ranges. They knew when to use partitions, JHP, SJSP, SP, and even solids, including what ranges all of them worked best. Many of them grew up on farms and shot 800 lbs cows and 300 lbs pigs with 22LR before cutting them up for the freezer. At one time the 44-40 was king for a deer hunting tool, which is almost as good as shooting them with a 44 special. If the deer was standing 300 yards away it was a chip shot. They killed elk with them too.

I'm not sure how we got from that to needing 338 super mags for elk past 100 yards, but it's kind of sad if you ask me.
 
spiaailtli said:
I'm guessing you're both under the age of 35 based on your views. The younger folks seem less aware of the capibilities and have been brainwashed in to thinking a magnum is needed for everything. :)

I can tell you which gun writers started the crazy. I guess it is okay, but it is a shame the young folks don't really know what their guns will do.

It very much reminds me of the 223 isn't big enough for deer thread. Folks get down right mad when people ask about it, yet it is the prefered choice by those who get paid to thin the herd and kill hundreds if not thousands every year.

It would do the young guys and gals good to study history and learn about the calibers people used 50 to 100 years ago. The 243 looks like a super magnum compared to most all of them. Read up on calibers used by market hunters to shoot deer at long range. They were barely more then pistol calibers. Heck I've shot deer at a couple hundred yeards with open sited pistols in straight wall cartridges and the bullet went clear through and out the other side. We read abotu folks using them out to 600 yards and thought nothing of shooting deer 200 or 300 yards away.

Back then people used the 243 on elk and moose on a regular bases and no one thought it was too little. People understood how their bullets were made and knew how they performed at all ranges. They knew when to use partitions, JHP, SJSP, SP, and even solids, including what ranges all of them worked best. Many of them grew up on farms and shot 800 lbs cows and 300 lbs pigs with 22LR before cutting them up for the freezer. At one time the 44-40 was king for a deer hunting tool, which is almost as good as shooting them with a 44 special. If the deer was standing 300 yards away it was a chip shot. They killed elk with them too.

I'm not sure how we got from that to needing 338 super mags for elk past 100 yards, but it's kind of sad if you ask me.
Click to expand...

Ok, yes I am 35. And you?? You must've really been at woodstock?

Ok now that the unpleasentrys have been dealt with, here's how my reply should've been percieved....
243- can it take elk?- yes
Should you use a 243 for Long range elk?
No freakin way. (the key words here are long range).
Any legal modern firearm for hunting in the proper hands at the propper distance has plenty of medicine in comparison to my old black powder rifle. Oh & ya its one of those ol Davey Crockett types that uses loose FFG & a .490 roundball. Not an inline. I've killed plenty with it, & wouldn't hesitate to use it on elk at the right distance, & right shot.

The way I see it, eventhough I'm only 35.... Ha,... Is elk hunting now a days is WAY different than it used to be. Now a days you have 20-40x as many people on the woods on a Very compact time frame per season, chasing game that has been run to the ragged edge by every other hunting season out there for 2+ months prior, plus predators year round.
This is why Long Range apeals to me. I more than double my cahncrs of filling the freezer when Long Range is part of my hunting grab bag. I don't need a super magnum to kill an elk. But if I'm gonna reach way out there, I'm gonna do it with a cartrige that can take advantage of heavy, high B.C. & high S.D. bullets that can, & will deliver maximum energy downrange, & have less wind drift doing it.
Long range, for me, is about consistancy, & eliminating variables in order to make first round clean kills. I don't shoot magnums to make up for skill, its all about taking advantage of high b.c. bullets.
I also don't shoot them because you think I lack in age or wisdom. I've killed plenty with -06 & 270's & old fashioned black powder rifle. They're great. But if I'm shooting long range I use the propper tools to eliminate variables.
Again a 243 can, will, & has killed elk. But a .243 is not, nor will it ever be considered a LONG RANGE elk rifle by anybody who consistantly kills elk. Even if they are only 35.......

As to historical cartriges, most folks considered Long Range hunters used a 45-70 govt , a 50-140, or a 45-120 Sharps for whackin buff. The order of the day was BIG, HEAVY, & as fast as you could push it with thier available components thus the Sharps cartriges.
When smokeless powder came into its own, & copper jacketed bullets allowed for higher speeds, & more pessure, folks started pushing smaller cartriges harder to try & make up for lack of projectile size & wt. That works to a certain degree, but there's an obvious limmit. History has a way of repeating itself, & now a days you see people who know, build,& use guns for Long Range hunting leaning back toward bigger heavier cartriges as fast as they can push them with what we have available. Why? Because, just like back then, bigger & faster works better at Long Range. Wow. History was right.

I'm no farmer, but I did grow up on a ranch, & worked my butt off. I've drilled countless holes in steers, or cows with broken legs with a 22 as well. But it was always under controlled circumstances. In a corrall, not too far away, & had to wait for the absolute perfect shot or all hell broke loose, & you wound up replacing corral boards, plus had an angry, hurt animal to deal with, & when that was done, you still had to answer to dad for why you took a stupid shot with a pea shooter. Ya, I'm not fond of the gimmie generation either, but when you talk about Long Range like I'm wet behind the ears your talking without choosing your words, properly, letalone the folks tour talkin too.
I'm no long range expert, & never claimed to be. But I got a pretty good idea about my passions, & firearms is one of em.
 
Last edited:
spiaailtli said:
I'm guessing you're both under the age of 35 based on your views. The younger folks seem less aware of the capibilities and have been brainwashed in to thinking a magnum is needed for everything. :)

I can tell you which gun writers started the crazy. I guess it is okay, but it is a shame the young folks don't really know what their guns will do.

It very much reminds me of the 223 isn't big enough for deer thread. Folks get down right mad when people ask about it, yet it is the prefered choice by those who get paid to thin the herd and kill hundreds if not thousands every year.

It would do the young guys and gals good to study history and learn about the calibers people used 50 to 100 years ago. The 243 looks like a super magnum compared to most all of them. Read up on calibers used by market hunters to shoot deer at long range. They were barely more then pistol calibers. Heck I've shot deer at a couple hundred yeards with open sited pistols in straight wall cartridges and the bullet went clear through and out the other side. We read abotu folks using them out to 600 yards and thought nothing of shooting deer 200 or 300 yards away.

Back then people used the 243 on elk and moose on a regular bases and no one thought it was too little. People understood how their bullets were made and knew how they performed at all ranges. They knew when to use partitions, JHP, SJSP, SP, and even solids, including what ranges all of them worked best. Many of them grew up on farms and shot 800 lbs cows and 300 lbs pigs with 22LR before cutting them up for the freezer. At one time the 44-40 was king for a deer hunting tool, which is almost as good as shooting them with a 44 special. If the deer was standing 300 yards away it was a chip shot. They killed elk with them too.

I'm not sure how we got from that to needing 338 super mags for elk past 100 yards, but it's kind of sad if you ask me.
Click to expand...


buzz wrong not under the age of 35.
when i tried to go hunting elk with my 6mm remington (age 18 more than 20 years ago) my grandfather refused to let me take it. He handed me a 30.06 and started talkin about his friend who insisted on using small calibers for elk and why my grandfather quit hunting with the guy (after several long treks chasing wounded elk) . the end:rolleyes:
 
winmag said:
Ok, yes I am 35. And you?? You must've really been at woodstock?

Ok now that the unpleasentrys have been dealt with, here's how my reply should've been percieved....
243- can it take elk?- yes
Should you use a 243 for Long range elk?
No freakin way. (the key words here are long range).
Any legal modern firearm for hunting in the proper hands at the propper distance has plenty of medicine in comparison to my old black powder rifle. Oh & ya its one of those ol Davey Crockett types that uses loose FFG & a .490 roundball. Not an inline. I've killed plenty with it, & wouldn't hesitate to use it on elk at the right distance, & right shot.

The way I see it, eventhough I'm only 35.... Ha,... Is elk hunting now a days is WAY different than it used to be. Now a days you have 20-40x as many people on the woods on a Very compact time frame per season, chasing game that has been run to the ragged edge by every other hunting season out there for 2+ months prior, plus predators year round.
This is why Long Range apeals to me. I more than double my cahncrs of filling the freezer when Long Range is part of my hunting grab bag. I don't need a super magnum to kill an elk. But if I'm gonna reach way out there, I'm gonna do it with a cartrige that can take advantage of heavy, high B.C. & high S.D. bullets that can, & will deliver maximum energy downrange, & have less wind drift doing it.
Long range, for me, is about consistancy, & eliminating variables in order to make first round clean kills. I don't shoot magnums to make up for skill, its all about taking advantage of high b.c. bullets.
I also don't shoot them because you think I lack in age or wisdom. I've killed plenty with -06 & 270's & old fashioned black powder rifle. They're great. But if I'm shooting long range I use the propper tools to eliminate variables.
Again a 243 can, will, & has killed elk. But a .243 is not, nor will it ever be considered a LONG RANGE elk rifle by anybody who consistantly kills elk. Even if they are only 35.......

As to historical cartriges, most folks considered Long Range hunters used a 45-70 govt , a 50-140, or a 45-120 Sharps for whackin buff. The order of the day was BIG, HEAVY, & as fast as you could push it with thier available components thus the Sharps cartriges.
When smokeless powder came into its own, & copper jacketed bullets allowed for higher speeds, & more pessure, folks started pushing smaller cartriges harder to try & make up for lack of projectile size & wt. That works to a certain degree, but there's an obvious limmit. History has a way of repeating itself, & now a days you see people who know, build,& use guns for Long Range hunting leaning back toward bigger heavier cartriges as fast as they can push them with what we have available. Why? Because, just like back then, bigger & faster works better at Long Range. Wow. History was right.

I'm no farmer, but I did grow up on a ranch, & worked my butt off. I've drilled countless holes in steers, or cows with broken legs with a 22 as well. But it was always under controlled circumstances. In a corrall, not too far away, & had to wait for the absolute perfect shot or all hell broke loose, & you wound up replacing corral boards, plus had an angry, hurt animal to deal with, & when that was done, you still had to answer to dad for why you took a stupid shot with a pea shooter. Ya, I'm not fond of the gimmie generation either, but when you talk about Long Range like I'm wet behind the ears your talking without choosing your words, properly, letalone the folks tour talkin too.
I'm no long range expert, & never claimed to be. But I got a pretty good idea about my passions, & firearms is one of em.
Click to expand...
Alright now.... Don't be ragg'n on us over 45r's. Some of us are old enough to be your dad but still have enough common sense not to hunt Rhinos with a slingshot! :D
 
WildRose said:
Alright now.... Don't be ragg'n on us over 45r's. Some of us are old enough to be your dad but still have enough common sense not to hunt Rhinos with a slingshot! :D
Click to expand...

I know better than to ragg on the old boys. They taught me all I know, & probably forgot more than I have learned. I hunted with my grandpa when he was alive. My dad is still my huntin buddy, & my oldest son will join us this comming year in Elk camp. Aside from my son, I'm still the young buck of our Elk camp, (& still shot the smallest rifle of the bunch untill this coming year, & its still not the biggest in the bunch. I don't have anything to prove). I pack meat for the senior hunters of our group, cause that's how I was taught. But they also know better than to blow too much smoke.
Not that any of them would even consider the idea, but hey if they wanna shoot a .243 for elk that's fine. Limmit your shots, & range & opportunitys, & ill help pack meat. Wing one too far away for lack of a propper Elk rifle, & your on your own.
I have a great amount of respect for my elders. They taught me right. Use enough gun, & choose your shots wisley.
 
winmag said:
I know better than to ragg on the old boys. They taught me all I know, & probably forgot more than I have learned. I hunted with my grandpa when he was alive. My dad is still my huntin buddy, & my oldest son will join us this comming year in Elk camp. Aside from my son, I'm still the young buck of our Elk camp, (& still shot the smallest rifle of the bunch untill this coming year, & its still not the biggest in the bunch. I don't have anything to prove). I pack meat for the senior hunters of our group, cause that's how I was taught. But they also know better than to blow too much smoke.
Not that any of them would even consider the idea, but hey if they wanna shoot a .243 for elk that's fine. Limmit your shots, & range & opportunitys, & ill help pack meat. Wing one too far away for lack of a propper Elk rifle, & your on your own.
I have a great amount of respect for my elders. They taught me right. Use enough gun, & choose your shots wisley.
Click to expand...
You did get that I was just ribbing you didn't ya?

I just noticed your locale. I have some very good friends not far from you. Great country.
 
Sully2 said:
Id like to have watched "Part II". Thats where someone took that rifle by the barrel and beat both the girl shooting and her "coach" ( remind me to never ask that guys input for anything) about the head and shoulders for even attempting it.

Im sure that at the distance of 2 feet a killing shot with a 22 rimfire pistol could have been made......right between that elks eyes!

Like WildRose stated...just because you CAN doesnt mean its a good idea to do it and it sure as hell isnt very sportsman like.
Click to expand...


Old thread.... but this is LONGRANGEHUTNING.COM right?
 
Shame Shame Shame....... on the peanut gallery. To each their own, someone on here said it best "magnumitis" There is no substitute for a well placed bullet....not even the baddest .338 plus magnums. Leave this gentleman and girl alone.

I'm so sick of these theological "piling-ons" which I'm sure every member here on "Long Range Hunting" knows all too well. The very similar comments posted about those of us who hunt from 300, 500, 1000 + yards by others who can barely hit a pie plate at 100 yards and believe themselves more ethical. You can argue either side of the "long range" debate the same as this silly business of cartridge size debate. It's stupid, counter productive, and makes us all look like we are dummies.

Sure a 100 yard shot is more sure than a 500 yrd, of course a .308 is more sure than a .243, of course you have to get closer with a bow than you do with a gun... To each their own........ Shame on the pompous arrogant jerks on here.. especially on the comment about beating the guy and girl over the head...
 
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