Shoulder bump problem or no problem?

[Roughrice]

My .02 on the donut.

If you are FL sizing fired brass without expander ball… your donut (if it has one) should be pushed inside the neck and not bother your chambering test.
But, When seating a bullet beyond the donut… I can understand where it would be pushed out and feel tight.

 

[Tidesloe]

Those guys are just down the road from me. I went over to see them once, but they wouldn't sell me any .338LMs. LOL I even promised them I'd do a full comparison review of their product, but they just shook their heads.

I've got a die-hard hand-loader shooting buddy who bought some .308s from them. He's not told me it's good brass ... but, he hasn't ever bought anything else with their head stamp on it since. I'm not 'saying' anything here. Those are just my observations.

Is there any way you could measure your neck wall thicknesses on some unaltered pieces of brass with a ball micrometer for us?

That's the only brass available for it, unless I make it from WSM brass that is non existent and would leave really short necks. Yes I can measure the neck wall thickness when I get home this evening

 

[Tidesloe]

My .02 on the donut.

If you are FL sizing fired brass without expander ball… your donut (if it has one) should be pushed inside the neck and not bother your chambering test.
But, When seating a bullet beyond the donut… I can understand where it would be pushed out and feel tight.

I'm not more than halfway into my neck with fire forming loads

 

[Tidesloe]

your right its

Is there any way you could measure your neck wall thicknesses on some unaltered pieces of brass with a ball micrometer for us?

How much would be too much variance in neck wall thickness? I've measured it but didn't write it down. I will do it again this evening on a random few pieces and write down

 

[Tac-O]

I don't think it's a donut.

Measure your loaded case neck diameter. All way back to shoulder junction. If it's less than chamber neck diameter, it's not donut.

 

[ChrisInKY]

How much would be too much variance in neck wall thickness? I've measured it but didn't write it down. I will do it again this evening on a random few pieces and write down

Up to the individual shooter I'd say. I would also say it's dependent on how much brass you have to sort. If you've got a thousand cases and you cull 300 with a .001+ variance ... are the 700 left over an adequate number for your application?

I've got two batches of Lapua brass. I'm working with the first 20. There is less than .0002 variance up, down and all around. Every piece rolls consistently. Am right at .014 neck thickness. From what I'm able to find online, and what I have with personal experience, I can take that neck wall thickness down to .012 with no safety or performance risk. Once upon a time I wanted to see how far I could go, but gave up on the endeavor. Just didn't seem like a worthwhile pursuit.

I'd be concerned that your brass may be less malleable than Lapua (or Peterson). I've heard it is 'a very hard' brass. I had some South American Army brass that was so hard I worried I'd damage my press during the ram stroke. I 'know' ADG is not that bad, but I don't know much else about their product. More curious than ever to hear what your neck wall thickness measurements are.

Said it before and it may be worth repeating: You shoot with what you've got and you make what you've got work for you. Almost anything is possible if you put your mind to it. This forum is GOLD if you reach that limitation. Someone will know.

 

[Tidesloe]

I'd be concerned that your brass may be less malleable than Lapua (or Peterson). I've heard it is 'a very hard'

It is "hard" brass. I did anneal before sizing and I'm sure that helped

 

[Tidesloe]

Said it before and it may be worth repeating: You shoot with what you've got and you make what you've got work for you. Almost anything is possible if you put your mind to it. This forum is GOLD if you reach that limitation. Someone will know.

Yes, that is our only choice. Gotta find a way to make it work out.
As far as this forum being GOLD, I couldn't possibly agree more. Without all of you guys and I feel like I'm tapping into a few hundred years of experience, I'd still be sitting around like I was 20 years ago when I started wondering what to do and with no direction.
I appreciate all the input very much

 

[Tidesloe]

I measured my neck thickness on 20 pieces.
It ran .015 pretty consistently on all 4 sides. I did see some variance across the lot, but individual pieces were pretty consistent. On the low side was .0145, on the hi .016. That's a bit thicker than I thought it would be. My loaded rounds are .368. I'm gonna see if I can find what the neck diameter is, or give Rich another call on Monday.

 

[smokey3]

He cant do that because he's bumping shoulder too far as it is. Basically chamber is .006 longer then his die. If he wasn't bumping shouler then he could trim

I don't know the answer to this question that I'm about to ask so if I'm not understanding correctly please cut me some slack. Would it be possible to take a reamer and run it in the die that is being used here to give a little extra depth in the shoulder area so that it does not bump the shoulder quite so much but would still allow the web to be sized down a tad more? Honest question, any thoughts from anyone? Disclaimer, I'm not a machinist and have never chambered a barrel.

 

[Barehandlineman11]

No. they make sizing reamers. Reason being your chamber is actually bigger then the die. So you would ream out the entire die. Or break the reamer. Dies get hardened after made.

 

[Tidesloe]

I don't know the answer to this question that I'm about to ask so if I'm not understanding correctly please cut me some slack. Would it be possible to take a reamer and run it in the die that is being used here to give a little extra depth in the shoulder area so that it does not bump the shoulder quite so much but would still allow the web to be sized down a tad more? Honest question, any thoughts from anyone? Disclaimer, I'm not a machinist and have never chambered a barrel.

That is something we did think in the beginning that the die is too short, but that doesn't clear up the fact that I've got to push my shoulder back that far to get past whatever is causing resistance to my bolt closing with no firing pin or ejector installed. This sounds like a simple problem to solve, but I haven't been able to find what is causing it.

 

[Barehandlineman11]

Its your case web… run it through another die. Your die could have been made over spec. I got norma 37* die from hornady im sending back for it being too big at case web.

 

[Tidesloe]

Its your case web… run it through another die. Your die could have been made over spec. I got norma 37* die from hornady im sending back for it being too big at case web.

I have seriously thought about getting another die. If that ends up solving the problem, I'll have a custom sizer made on fully formed brass. If my web is expanding that much, and my measurements haven't said so, wouldn't I also be seeing significant ejector marks?