Bone to pick with new rifle owners - 100 yards out of the box

[skipglo]

I shoot a LOT of rimfire. Trigger time is good no matter what it is attached to. I also shoot a lot of cast bullet handgun loads. I have seen a lot of good rifle shooters that are just okay with a handgun, but never seen a handgunner that can't shoot very good with a rifle. Those short barrels really magnify small errors.

You never met Quigley!

 

[skipglo]

For you or anyone else to hit 20 beer cans in a row at 800 yards, your rifle better be the best of the best. Meaning it better shoot less than .300 groups at 100 yards consistently...that means EVERY shot. A beer can is 2 1/2" in diameter. So, half of the beer can is 1 1/4". So, intrinsic accuracy says
.300 x 8(800 yards)=2.4" which means everything would have to be perfect for every shot to get a hit. We haven't even talked about shooting under field conditions or the fact that factory ammo isn't capable of that type of accuracy, or a 1 mph breeze that you can't perceive between you and the beer can or mirage or even parallax in the optics. You're talking about world record, benchrest, hall of fame shooters accuracy that is shot with big, heavy, wide forearm rifles, with heavy barrels, 2 ounce triggers, off of the best benchrests in the most controlled circumstances possible, off of the sturdiest benches....not off a bipod or a backpack or makeshift sand bags. I'll have to give you one thing....you do dream big for sure.

I believe reading what @Small Lady was stating...she is well aware that it is a near impossible goal but is modest enough to set the Bar so high in-order to qualify herself Proficient and ready for lesser ranges. Realist..not dreamer..just me!

 

[A/1-61]

I can't tell you how many rounds I put through my 7mm STW from 100-600 yds in preparation for a Utah hunt in the Uintas as well as tweaking my reloads and the ballistics chart to make it all work at all yardages. Maybe 75? Then when I arrived in Utah and shot at a range in Vernal at 680 and 1010. Steel targets, bear and elk respectively, one shot each. Dead on. Unfortunately, I had two opportunities but didn't have enough time to set up let alone take a shot. A lot of work but maybe next year.

 

[epc001]

I work at a LGS, I have guys tell me all the time that a box of ammo will last them 15 years or more.

And this is what is out there during hunting season.

Hey, I covet my rare slugs. They don't make ACTIVs anymore and Brenneke Classics were REALLY hard to get a few years back. All my smoothbore will print. I try and make a 5 pack of slugs last ALAP! Plus, you all ever shoot a 5.75 lb 12 ga slug gun. Masocism at its finest I tell ya.

( a thousand rounds/ yr thru my Garands is practice good enough!)

 

[Turpentine21]

I'm lucky! Rare is the day that I don't shoot one form of firearm or other. If I'm not shooting I'm teaching others. Shotgun mainly but some rifle and pistol too. It's expensive. For many people it takes a huge effort just to get to a range. I have one friend that does a ton of practice with a pellet gun. The motions are the same. You can also do trigger control, breathing, gun mounting, stance, and dry fire practice right in your own home. All of which can pay dividends. It all comes down to whether one chooses to spend the time to get better and educate themselves.

 

[Markga]

You definitely have some high standards I hope you accomplish them

 

[257PhilBob]

Absolutely, I do all of my own reloading, testing, bore sighting and hunting. I enjoy every bit of it also. This is what makes the hunt for me, the knowledge of everything my rifle and I are capable of.

 

[Ol' Red]

Good! I'll probably need 'em.....it just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

I just remembered that I have something to do on Saturday at 1:00. We should be able to wrap this up by noon right?

 

[Bob Milek]

I may shoot paper at one distance, but won't take an animal at that same distance it would be a closer distance.

having spent much of my adult life working in various countries in africa as an engineer has afforded me the chance to hunt most all of the game the continent affords. from the mid 1970's when i arrived to the mid 1990's when i left i do not EVER recall shooting anything beyond 300 yards and virtually all my shots were under 200 yards and many well under 50 yards. in fact i doubt i could hit much of anything at 600-1000 yards and would not even try. frankly as an old school hunter and animal lover shooting at that distance unless you are an honest to god expert marksman is an irresponsible fools errand and to me takes away the best part of hunting..........the stalk where your skills and instincts rise to their best or not. the accurate shot is the cherry on the sundae for all your hard work to make it.

Agree, 1pocket. No matter how proficient you are at doping wind, how good your ballistics dope and abilities are, there is one variable beyond your control- the animal. Game is notional. I've seen elk and deer feeding complacently who suddenly decided the grass or brush 2 steps away looked better than the one in front of it. If bullet time of flight is 1 second or so, those 2 steps turn a very solid lung shot into a very bad gut shot. I know there are many guys capable of the correct bullet placement, and as long as the animal cooperates, are capable of the shot and their ammo is capable of performing. I just prefer not to take the chance on the animal moving, and try to stalk closer.

 

[C-130 Dude]

I would have to agree with you while also disagreeing with you. I try to shoot once a week during the fall until spring. I don't shoot in hot weather because it's not enjoyable to me. I won't turn my enjoyment into forced work.
My youngest son lives in Kansas City and has to drive over two hours to get to a 200 yard range and three hours to get to a longer range. Sometimes it's just not feasible to shoot weekly. You are in a situation that you can shoot regularly as am I. So take full advantage of that and enjoy getting better with more trigger time.
A month's mortgage can certainly buy a lot of ammo, but if it results in living under a bridge next month, it's hard to keep your firearms dry and secure. The most important thing is to hunt within your capabilities and strive to improve your capabilities at all times. Happy shooting and welcome to this forum.

Well said. There's no substitute for trigger time.

 

[PNWdude67]

Bone to pick and advice. Over the past ten years, we have seen a massive growth in out of the box 1000 yard capable rifles. Set up amazingly, built incredibly well and topped with amazing glass. Even engineered ammo. Then add ranging binos and ballistics calculators and you have a pretty amazing set up. True

If you buy one of these, awesome. SHOOT IT before you show up in camp. SO many times, I have been in camp trueing my D.O.P.E. and had some person show up with a rifle they have never shot and expecting to shoot their animal. They sit down, start shooting and wonder why they arent hitting the 500 yard target I set up.

Its because no one who cannot shoot 500 should try to shoot 500. Further more, shooting 600 is not a little harder than 500, its way harder. Just like shooting 1000 is not 2x as hard as shooting 500. NO its 10x harder. Especially in the field!! Especially with untested rifle, ammo, and hunter.

I have seen a few animals wounded and die terrible, long and painful deaths. Seen a few even not be recovered that were shot very badly. Please, show up ready to be an ethical hunter rather than showing up with bravado and ego. There is a reason military shooters have DOPE, so they hit the target correctly the first time! Then, true their dope...its takes time but the animal deserves it.

That's a bone to pick with any hunter, archery or rifle. Sometimes the guy who zeros, actually gets a data card and hits 36" plate a 1k yards feels he's ready for a long range engagement in the field on a target with a heartbeat. The more matches and time practicing I shoot them more I realize the limitations of what my rifle system (me included) capabilities are. Depending on the situation an 1100 yard shot can be easier than a 400 yard shot in the field. I passed on an antelope I was chasing and never got a shot at when we encountered him at 395 yards, 25-30 mph wind and would have had to engage off the tripod. The next day I harvested another buck at 980 yards in 5 mph wind from a solid prone position. Distance is only one factor that creates difficulty and affects the first round hit probability. It is also the simplest factor to account for with gravity being a constant. The other factors are all variable.

 

[PNWdude67]

Agree, 1pocket. No matter how proficient you are at doping wind, how good your ballistics dope and abilities are, there is one variable beyond your control- the animal. Game is notional. I've seen elk and deer feeding complacently who suddenly decided the grass or brush 2 steps away looked better than the one in front of it. If bullet time of flight is 1 second or so, those 2 steps turn a very solid lung shot into a very bad gut shot. I know there are many guys capable of the correct bullet placement, and as long as the animal cooperates, are capable of the shot and their ammo is capable of performing. I just prefer not to take the chance on the animal moving, and try to stalk closer.

I agree, Steel plates don't have heart beats. We do have a mover system which really is fun and makes you a better shooter at any target, helps you understand TOF more intuitively how far a 3 mph target can move in that time.

 

[highfinblue]

Agree, 1pocket. No matter how proficient you are at doping wind, how good your ballistics dope and abilities are, there is one variable beyond your control- the animal. Game is notional. I've seen elk and deer feeding complacently who suddenly decided the grass or brush 2 steps away looked better than the one in front of it. If bullet time of flight is 1 second or so, those 2 steps turn a very solid lung shot into a very bad gut shot. I know there are many guys capable of the correct bullet placement, and as long as the animal cooperates, are capable of the shot and their ammo is capable of performing. I just prefer not to take the chance on the animal moving, and try to stalk closer.

I totally agree, but there are situations where this is impossible. Places I elk hunt are so covered in oak brush visibility is 20 yards and less in most of it with small pockets of openings scattered throughout. Most openings are tiny, again 20 yards and less. The best way to hunt is to sit on one side of the canyon glassing the other side and then making the long shots across the canyon. The elk love it, so game is plentiful and after you have one down the shooter walks to the animal with a spotter walking him in with hand signals. We try to be quiet so we don't speak, but it's been working for a long while.

 

[wilkup]

Gamesniper19, great post!

Not only are those "wannabe" long range newbie hunters/shooters wasting your time, and causing suffering to animals in the field… they are doing the same on these forums…

Many Uneducated wannabe/newbies in today's shooting sports/forums are not willing to, capable of, or WANTING to learn…before they shoot, take to the field, or attempt to take an animal while hunting.…Or to understand their equipment

Why do some of them NOT want to "learn" about hunting/shooting, through experience?

Because, they don't truly LOVE the sport. They want to buy their way into being "a respected Expert"

Even if they don't make money hand over fist…money is their "membership card" to this sport…(and everything in life)…It is not

Others have been taught that in our "Society of Instant Gratification", that no dues have to be paid (experience built up through trial and error), for knowledge and skill…they lay some money on the table, and that is where their knowledge and "Street Cred" is earned

Also, many people really have the such limited mechanical knowledge or "street smarts", when it comes to shooting, hunting, or being in the field. Because that is an acquired knowledge, from time spent in the sport, on the bench, and dare I say…common sense from previous experience

And why are many not willing to spend the time accrueing knowledge in the field?
…they just watch how to do it on YouTube instead

And do I need to mention all of the G's, Trolls, spammers/scammers, and bots on all of these forums, wasting our time?…

Bottom line is…these people need go spend some time on the bench.…Go spend some time in the woods, prairies or mountains, take some pictures…and enjoy this sport for what it is…

Not to pay for, and pretend to be, something they are not.

The whole idea of buying your expertise is maddening. Certain things just can't be bought. Experience and a physically fit body are two of the few. Unfortunately it's much easier to spot a fake within the fitness industry than most other niches. Too bad it can't all be that easy.