Hammer bullet for short range bear hunting

[memtb]

That pellet is surrounded by a capsule of scar. When you eat lead it is subjected to the digestive effects of the GI tract and absorption is increased. Children are more susceptible to lead absorption and toxicity than adults. Read about it. Search toxicity of lead shot ingestion.

Yep, always wondered how much lung capacity I lost to scar tissue. I'm sure it was a lot……an "inquiring minds" sort of thing! memtb

 

[Calvin45]

That pellet is surrounded by a capsule of scar. When you eat lead it is subjected to the digestive effects of the GI tract and absorption is increased. Children are more susceptible to lead absorption and toxicity than adults. Read about it. Search toxicity of lead shot ingestion.

I acknowledged this and talked about it at great length, why scavenger birds are so much more affected by lead than we are. GI acidity. I've read this entire thread and a great deal of material about this subject.

Please do read what everyone else has said

 

[nralifer]

I got some of the original X bullets, no grooves, for my 243 for CHEAP on an auction a while ago. If the internet is to be believed they won't hit the broadside of a barn, will immediately foul my barrel beyond recognition, and will make a 6mm entry and exit with no expansion.

I suspect once I get them up and running they'll be the first bullet my kids shoot out of a hunting rifle and take game with should they grow to love hunting. 75 grainers, and I was cleaning the tips after treating the bullets with HBN and applying too much lateral pressure with a dental pick CAUSED ONE TO BEGIN OPENING, four clearly defined lines running down the nose and the meplat starting to flower. zero expansion…yeah right. These things appear to be designed to expand with less energy than a dang soft point for crying out loud.

I've treated them as I said with hbn. That tremendously mitigates barrel copper fouling with any bullet.

They are flat base with decent bearing surface, very conducive to easy accuracy even out of my old savage 99…not high bc but this will be a 300 yards and under (probably 200 and under) whitetail bullet and cartridge/rifle setup that won't intimidate or punish my kids when they're gangly 11 year olds haha

I have very high hopes for
This bullet (and the lot of 300 of them that I got for like 60 bucks should last!)

The original X bullet was apparently variable in its performance. Some barrels shot them well snd others didn't. Addition of the groves improved their consistency in performance and reduced copper fouling. If you have a barrel that will shoot then well all is good.

 

[Calvin45]

The original X bullet was apparently variable in its performance. Some barrels shot them well snd others didn't. Addition of the groves improved their consistency in performance and reduced copper fouling. If you have a barrel that will shoot then well all is good.

That's what I've heard

I'm really curious to see if HBN treating will help dampen this sensitivity. And the fact that it's not a particularly long heavy bullet at 75 grain 6mm, as in not a crazy long shank with no relief grooves so maybe not as pressure spikey?

I know that's kind of what Barnes was trying to do with their old baked on blue XLC X bullet. Will be a while before I test them probably but I'll let everyone know what I find. Got simple load ladders worked up with about 6 different powders just to see what happens.

 

[nralifer]

Again…maybe read the rest of the thread. I acknowledged this and talked about it at great length, why scavenger birds are so much more affected by lead than we are. GI acidity. I've read this entire thread and a great deal of material about this subject.

Please do read what everyone else has said

Just read a case report of a woman who had ingested some lead shot probably from eating game. Her blood level of lead was very high. An abdominal x-ray was done and showed a 6 mm shot in her colon which she eventually passed after a bout of diarrhea. Her blood lead level decreased to 1/10th the level it was when she had symptoms, which by this point had stopped. She apparently had retained that shot for some time in the GI tract which favored continued lead absorption. If you want to eat lead and feed it to your children, be my guest. I don't. Lead core bullets are inconsistent and potentially toxic. I have had my share of bad hunting experiences with them and no longer use them to hunt with.

 

[Calvin45]

Just read a case report of a woman who had ingested some lead shot probably from eating game. Her blood level of lead was very high. An abdominal x-ray was done and showed a 6 mm shot in her colon which she eventually passed after a bout of diarrhea. Her blood lead level decreased to 1/10th the level it was when she had symptoms, which by this point had stopped. She apparently had retained that shot for some time in the GI tract which favored continued lead absorption. If you want to eat lead and feed it to your children, be my guest. I don't. Lead core bullets are inconsistent and potentially toxic. I have had my share of bad hunting experiences with them and no longer use them to hunt with.

Fair enough man. I can see how if it got stuck in your tract that could be bad. A 6mm shot like a big BB isn't quite the same thing as minuscule particles of lead. And I understand where you're coming from on inconsistency but also I can't fully agree but we each have our experience and certainly I won't deny yours. But a bullet deforming or losing weight isn't inconsistent in and of itself. If it can't be relied upon to open hard and sufficiently penetrate the same every time then that's inconsistent. And for me a lot of monos inspire less confidence regarding the "open up hard" part of that equation than lead cores do. Just me.

 

[nralifer]

Fair enough man. I can see how if it got stuck in your tract that could be bad. A 6mm shot like a big BB isn't quite the same thing as minuscule particles of lead. And I understand where you're coming from on inconsistency but also I can't fully agree but we each have our experience and certainly I won't deny yours. But a bullet deforming or losing weight isn't inconsistent in and of itself. If it can't be relied upon to open hard and sufficiently penetrate the same every time then that's inconsistent. And for me a lot of monos inspire less confidence regarding the "open up hard" part of that equation than lead cores do. Just me.

One thing I can tell you is that all copper bullets are much less ductile than lead cores. Lead cores "squeeze" into the rifling and are thought to elongate to some degree during rifling engagement. In all copper bullets the rifling actually is etched off the bullet. We have found that beyond about 0.320" of continuous bearing surface the amount of copper being displaced becomes excessive and will start to gall and cause heavier deposition in the barrel. The groves and boat tail provide a place for that etched copper to go.

 

[Coldfinger]

Man these bullet threads get pretty violent!!!

 

[RockyMtnUT]

Man these bullet threads get pretty violent!!!

Bullet threads &
Creedmoor threads top 2 train wrecks on LRH. I almost wish for primer seating threads to come back or "what scope is best threads".

 

[nralifer]

One thing I can tell you is that all copper bullets are much less ductile than lead cores. Lead cores "squeeze" into the rifling and are thought to elongate to some degree during rifling engagement. In all copper bullets the rifling actually is etched off the bullet. We have found that beyond about 0.320" of continuous bearing surface the amount of copper being displaced becomes excessive and will start to gall and cause heavier deposition in the barrel. The groves and boat tail provide a place for that etched copper to go.

As far as opening up "hard" what exactly does that mean? Our bullets open very reliably. I think we have a pretty good understanding of the mechanics of copper bullets opening up, having experimented with it both in gels an in the field and designed and tested several concepts in both rifle and pistol bullets.

 

[Calvin45]

Man these bullet threads get pretty violent!!!

nah this ain't bad yet

 

[2buffalo]

nah this ain't bad yet

Yet....

 

[Calvin45]

As far as opening up "hard" what exactly does that mean? Our bullets open very reliably. I think we have a pretty good understanding of the mechanics of copper bullets opening up, having experimented with it both in gels an in the field and designed and tested several concepts in both rifle and pistol bullets.

Honestly I think I just have a bad taste in my mouth from a lot of accounts (not just one-offs) of heavier Barnes, hornady gmx, and Nosler e tips causing very narrow wounding and slow kills.

And I don't know if it'll be possible to convince me that at sub 2200 fps impacts coppers can do anything close to the damage that thin jacketed tipped heavy for caliber high bc lead bullets consistently do

I do use both!

 

[nralifer]

Honestly I think I just have a bad taste in my mouth from a lot of accounts (not just one-offs) of heavier Barnes, hornady gmx, and Nosler e tips causing very narrow wounding and slow kills.

And I don't know if it'll be possible to convince me that at sub 2200 fps impacts coppers can do anything close to the damage that thin jacketed tipped heavy for caliber high bc lead bullets consistently do

I do use both!