CFE223 in cold weather??

birddog 68 said:
I'm working on a 50 grain BT load for my 223 and tried CFE 223 along with Benchmark. This rifle is used for coyotes and punching targets in all weather conditions. (5 - up to 70 degrees) Luckily the Benchmark was way more accurate so I won't be worrying about temperature stability with it.
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Has it ever given you any reason to doubt or not trust it? I'd be for guessing not...I'd keep using it.

From my tests with various powders I've found the whole temp sensi or not to be one of the most over rated things going. Very rare when I've found anyone who's actually done some decent testing
 
ChrisTeam2 said:
In case this might be helpful:

I just tested a proven load with CFE-223 69 Gr. TMKs (Mostly used in 8-45 Celsius Temps) from my 3 years old AR-15 which has a 16" barrel and then tested this load in a new 20" AR-15 that is still breaking in. Bottom line is that the SD was 17.5 fps (not that great, getting about 12 fps in my other rifle), velocity was a respectable 2937 fps at 20 Celsius, 5 shot groups were horrible at 3.5+ MOAs.

I thought about switching primers (from Federal match to CCI No. 41 or Magnum No. 450) but given the data I have, the CFE-223 temp. variability is 1.7 fps per degree Fahrenheit. To economize my time, I think I am going to try and use TAC (0.91 fps per degree Fahrenheit based on third party data) which has given me very good results with 60 gr. TMKs in that same AR 20" AR-15 with 10.0 fps SD. I will therefore develop a TAC load with 69 TMKs, hoping it shoots well in both rifles; happy to share my data once the results are in, if it is of interest.

Idgunner: if you have a lot CFE-223 it may be worthwhile for you to try a magnum primer and redo your load development for a winter load? On a recent Erik Cortina podcast Believe the Target:






Bryan Litz commented that low SDs and accuracy largely stems, in his experience from the proper powder and primer combination and he added that usually once you have that right powder to primer combination, you usually have 1-4 grains of freedom from which to develop your load. Could be worth a trial to use different load/primers combination...
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I too watched the Litz/Cortina video. Lot's of great info there. Brian is careful not to make any flat statements because of sample size and variations in each "story" that are not controllable. We would all benefit from that attitude.
I also tried hotter primers with no luck on the CFE powder at 20 degrees F.

However, I did take some of my chuck loads from another rifle that are filled with AR-Comp powder and HOOOLLY CHIT what a difference!!!!! I had cleaned the barrel yesterday after shooting and put my chuck loads through it today. They are 21.8g of AR-Comp behind 77g STMKs. 5 shots through the clean cold barrel with the outside temp at 26 degrees tore a ragged hole less than 1/2 inch at 100 yards!!!!! I also had loaded up 5 test rounds with the 75g ELDMs and just one hole was not touching the other 4 at 100 yards, still less than 3/4 inch. Now I know the barrel will shoot and I know that the CFE223 is junk in this barrel at these temps. I have to wait for warmer weather to develop my chuck loads for this spring! Hope it warms up soon because I have over 2000 cases to load.
 
dogz said:
Has it ever given you any reason to doubt or not trust it? I'd be for guessing not...I'd keep using it.

From my tests with various powders I've found the whole temp sensi or not to be one of the most over rated things going. Very rare when I've found anyone who's actually done some decent testing
Click to expand...
I'm in the process of load development for my 223 so CFE 223 has not given me any reason to doubt or not trust it. Benchmark was just more accurate from my rifle and that's what I will be continuing load work up with.
I was thinking of trying CFE 223 in my 7-08 but my current load with IMR 4350 is very accurate and can't see it getting better.
And yes I use IMR 4350 so temperature sensitivity is low on my list of things I worry about. 😉
 
birddog 68 said:
I'm in the process of load development for my 223 so CFE 223 has not given me any reason to doubt or not trust it. Benchmark was just more accurate from my rifle and that's what I will be continuing load work up with.
I was thinking of trying CFE 223 in my 7-08 but my current load with IMR 4350 is very accurate and can't see it getting better.
And yes I use IMR 4350 so temperature sensitivity is low on my list of things I worry about. 😉
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I've used CFE223 for several years in thousands of rounds on rock chucks and have been very happy with it. It took the top off of sneaky chucks heads hiding behind rocks at over 300 yards. But, the temps were more moderate. This cold weather stuff will not work for me for some reason. That's okay. I have time and after my testing today with a different powder I know that the barrel will do what I want it to do. The CFE will work when the weather warms up and I have a good load to start with behind the Hornady 75g ELDMs.
 
Try to Find, David Tubb's Article on,.. Large vs Small Primers ( His Brass choice, "Testing" for, the 6 XC ) T'was done, several Years ago and Posted on, Accurate Shooter. He found out that, Norma Brass with, Lge Primers, worked,.. Best.
He found, a fairly High, Percentage ( 16%,.. IIRC ) of, "Hang Fires"/ Poor Velocity E-S's with, Small Primers in the, COLD ( -15 to +25 Degree's, IIRC ).
Many people, WOULDN'T Notice, the Velocity "Spreads" that, He found. ( since you're probably, Freezing, too,.. LOL )
PERSONALLY,.. I won't take "Chances" with, Hard to, Lite off, Ball Powders using, SMALL Primers, IN,.. Winter !
 
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Idgunner said:
I have used CFE223 for a few years to hunt chucks from the end of March to the end of July here in Idaho. I have 26 inch 8 twist barrels and shoot 75 gr Hornady ELDMs. The CFE223 has been a great powder for me. I just replaced one of my 223 barrels with a new 8 twist Criterion barrel and can't get that thing to shoot. Velocities and groups are all over the place. A friend who used to be a competition shooter has suggested that perhaps the CFE is not good when the outside temps hit the teens and low 20's. Chuck season usually varies from about 35 to 90 and it burns well though that temp range. I have some hunting loads from last season that are charged with AR-COMP behind 77g STMKs so tomorrow I'm going to try those and I've loaded up some of my annealed Lapua brass with the AR-Comp and the ELDMs. Hopefully I will finally be able to prove that this barrel will shoot.
Has anyone here had experience with CFE223 in low temps?
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A couple questions come to mind. How did your previous pet load with the same powder you know shoots well do in the same cold temps? Have you tried other powders and bullets? There is nothing new about different "barrels" shooting different powders and bullets well.
 
Would not surprise me. My .223 loads of 25-27 grains of CFE223 appear to be good at temperatures in the mid 20's using CCI41 primers. Loads of CFE223, near 40 grains, in 6mm & 6.5 CM require large rifle primers. No problems yet with CFE223 in .223 & .204R using CCI 41's mid 20 degree & up, but CFE223 appears to be high temp. sensitive. Big difference when feeding ice cold rounds into rifle compared to warm to touch.
 
birddog 68 said:
I'm in the process of load development for my 223 so CFE 223 has not given me any reason to doubt or not trust it. Benchmark was just more accurate from my rifle and that's what I will be continuing load work up with.
I was thinking of trying CFE 223 in my 7-08 but my current load with IMR 4350 is very accurate and can't see it getting better.
And yes I use IMR 4350 so temperature sensitivity is low on my list of things I worry about. 😉
Click to expand...
I haven't shot my 22-250 in at least 25 years. I was thinking CFE223 Might work ? 1 in 14 twist 🙄
 

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