YZEATER
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do you want my paypal address to send me money so you can buy my tags and then i'll hunt your way?
Let them walk.
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buckbrush
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What a waste of bandwidth.
You can't judge a Buck by it's rack. There I have said it. I am more of a meat hunter than a trophy hunter. Since doe are legal where I hunt I regularly take them for meat. It was Monday after a Saturday opening and my hunting partner Kathy had to work so I wandered out to my stand alone before sunrise. A little after dawn and legal shooting hours I had what appeared to be a large doe wander out of the woods and start feeding in a harvested corn field. I watched her through binoculars and determined that she was a keeper. She was alone, no smaller deer following. As mentioned earlier I am a meat hunter and it appeared to be a good sized doe that would add a lot of meat to my freezer. I ranged her at 128 yards and rested the Tikka .270 on a rock shooting in a semi prone supported position. The Tikka is sighted in for 200 yards so it was pretty much a dead hold shot. The deer turned sideways presenting a beautiful textbook shot. The Tikka roared and about 2/100th of a second later the Federal Premium 130 gr Nosler Partition did it's textbook thing and the doe dropped in place and never twitched. As I was approaching the doe I couldn't help but think that now that I had meat in the freezer I could see if I could find a good sized Buck. There were several running around on the property I hunt. When I got to the deer I was amazed to see small fork horns that were shorter than the ears that had hidden them. So much for hunting for one of the large bucks. I live in a heavy CWD area so after the deer was field dressed and hauled back into the barn to hang I called the local game warden and asked if she could stop by and take a look at the deer. She showed up, confirmed that it was otherwise a healthy deer not likely CWD, which testing proved her right. She aged the deer at 6 to 7 years old. This posed the question, "Did he always have a tiny rack or was it a product of old age? How did this deer get to live so long? That is anybody's guess and only the buck could answer that question and he was dead. It's longevity might be explained as looking like a doe all along and hunters passing him over looking for a large rack. The scary part was, "How many doe had he bred over his long life and how big were the racks of the male offspring? The area I hunt is in Southwest Wisconsin and there is no lacking of trophy sized bucks so the theory is that he was just at the end of his line and the rack was not developing properly anymore. The moral of the story here is that the Doe you shoot for meat may not be a doe after all. Time to cull bucks like that from the herd.
HLecea
Well-Known Member
There's quite a few of you that will read this post and you'll just get mad and try to tell me how it is. Cool, you do that. I will hit "ignore" on every one of you without hesitation. If you want to disagree, you better do so in a manner befitting a Christian. Fact is, I have almost nothing in common with most "hunters" these days, and I'd rather be disliked by all of them than be "popular" among that crowd.
This post is for the rest of you. The guys that are trying to be good responsible sportsmen that know how to manage our resources.
My request is this: Learn how to score on the hoof. Stop shooting immature animals. If you want food and the joy of the hunt... do it with a doe. They taste better.
That is all.
I'm out scouting for pronghorn, as I usually do this time of year. Some areas of the country you see massive pronghorn regularly. Tags are hard to get in those areas. Permission to hunt, even harder to get. They grow big there, because most hunters are kept out.
That's not true of my area. Here, there isn't much for sizable pronghorn. Fewer and fewer sizable anything, actually.
It's a sad reality when in order to foster trophy animals, hunters must be kept away. Yet, despite how sad, that is very true of many hunters. We're suppose to care... not just look for instant gratification of a kill on our vacation from our life, wife, and job.
Took this guys picture 15 minutes ago... and I know the majority of hunters would blast him if given the opportunity. Sure, he's a "nice" goat. He's got decent cutters, decent length, decent mass, and there's even some ivory there.
Though he sure doesn't have much of a curl does he? I bet he's 3yrs old is all. Next year he'll be nice. Two years, he'll be a STUD! What do you think he scores?
Now compare what you see above, to a real trophy pronghorn. Here's a 90" goat from pronghornguideservice instagram page:
Now what do you think that first goat I posted scored?
I'm talking about pronghorn here, but the same applies to every species. Just let them walk. What is the big deal? Shoot a doe for as many years as you need to foster some proper management of the species. Teach this restraint to the younger generation. If you don't, then $10,000+ per hunt guides will be the only place any of us get to hunt a real trophy. You can very likely still do all the things that are important to you on your hunt without shooting an immature buck.
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Lapuatom
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HLecea
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I agree. Here in Southern CA the deer are small. I'm in favor of a moratorium for a few years so the deer can grow.
For me, trophy quality is simply an added bonus to the "experience of the hunt"…..My top priority.
KyCarl
Well-Known Member
If it's legal It's none of your business Stay out of it!
And how many who shoot the "trophy" bucks are making summer sausage out of the whole thing? I'll admit I just don't get the horn hunting. I want a mature buck, as there is more meat on it, i.e. kill one animal instead of 3-4 does. I did, in a moment of weakness, shoot a whitetail that missed B&C by about 10 points and regretted every bite of it.
I think hunting for food is time-honored and respected by more folks who 20 years ago would have condemned any hunters.
But, shoot tough old bucks if you want to. I certainly won't deride you or invoke Christianity to justify eating tasty meat.
As an aside, though, from the Babylon Bee, new scrolls excavated from the earliest days have discovered that Cain's offering, which God rejected, while often pictured in Sunday School books as tomatoes, was actually kale.
I think hunting for food is time-honored and respected by more folks who 20 years ago would have condemned any hunters.
But, shoot tough old bucks if you want to. I certainly won't deride you or invoke Christianity to justify eating tasty meat.
As an aside, though, from the Babylon Bee, new scrolls excavated from the earliest days have discovered that Cain's offering, which God rejected, while often pictured in Sunday School books as tomatoes, was actually kale.
M1A1ABRAMS
Well-Known Member
Or the pickup truck or car doing 65 mph gets them that night or early morning. At least here in PA, MD,VA,ETC I see many a deer laying along the road. And quite a few nice bucks. In fact I hunt along a few roads,within legal limits. And do quite well where the deer walk under the bridge to avoid traffic. I would rather have the meat in my freezer to eat. Than see it laying along the road for varmints. Even though they need to eat also. And they get plenty. So passing on a 8 pt here is rare. They are usually the trophies in my area. Not many 13 pts have been taken here. My brother got one. And needless to say. It started a confrontation with another guy that missed him twice in 2 different archery seasons. I think he thought that deer was there just for him. I help butcher during deer season. And see a many trophies taken. They may not look like a trophy to me. But in the hunters eyes, it's a trophy.
I have hunted deer most of my life. I wasn't very successful to start with. I had taken more men by the time I was 22, than deer. Stopped hunting for a year or two after that. Finally got back into hunting, by using a shotgun for dove hunting, which got me back into hunting animals. Got a little better funded and started to hunt out of state. There generally five stages in hunting, and you can be in anyone of those stages during your life, and with different animals. This is how it sets out. Novelist that hunts up and down trying to get whatever, and not finding much. The Killer, and has become fairly good at taking whatever. The Method hunter, he has refining his skills and including more equipment to hunt with. The Trophy Hunter. Small buck, does, bulls, doesn't get him or her going. To easy. Has learn how to judge Horns, hunts for only large horn animals. Harder to fine, and even harder to get. To me bowhunting is even harder. Your shots are very close and personal. At one time 80yds wasn't out of the question for me, and that's a long shot with a bow.
To me hunting is looking for and finding an animal by spot, and then stock. There hasn't hardly be a time I couldn't close the distance down to under 200yds. with a rifle. I have made the 500yds+ shoots too. My groups were generally in the 3" area at 500yds. I take pride in closing my distance down to under 300yds. A lots less than that most of the times.
Animals aren't generally really afraid of you if you are out 500+ yds in front of you, and you haven't spoked them. Now I have worked with my two boys from early on, and shown them, to watch, and how to judge horns.
I think that one of the best ways to teach kid on hunting is that they have binoculars and all sit down and look for whatever animals you are hunting, and others at the same time. It got to be game as to who would spot the first animal or animals. Then teach them on how judge them. Most years I go home without an animal, because it didn't measured up. I don't care, it was the hunt that mattered.
Taking does cut the population down, but there are thinning that is needed to be done too. A buck can services a great many does. Washington if I remember correctly has a 4 point or more in there muley hunting only. I noted sometime back there was a lot of large bucks, but 3 points or under. No small small buck with 4 points showing up either with small racks.
Arizona has so many hunting seasons, and it's taken it tole too. Montana in a lot of ways has done the same thing. Wolves are another big problem in several states, and have cut down all of herds down too. Wyoming has worked hard to keep the wolves down. Idaho is working reducing the Wolves too, to get it back into line.
I feel that what it should be, is take a wolf first, then you get your deer and elk tag. If they want to see wolves, then the wolves are safe in the National Parks. Outside of that they are fair game anytime of the year, like in Wyoming. No tags or license required.
To me hunting is looking for and finding an animal by spot, and then stock. There hasn't hardly be a time I couldn't close the distance down to under 200yds. with a rifle. I have made the 500yds+ shoots too. My groups were generally in the 3" area at 500yds. I take pride in closing my distance down to under 300yds. A lots less than that most of the times.
Animals aren't generally really afraid of you if you are out 500+ yds in front of you, and you haven't spoked them. Now I have worked with my two boys from early on, and shown them, to watch, and how to judge horns.
I think that one of the best ways to teach kid on hunting is that they have binoculars and all sit down and look for whatever animals you are hunting, and others at the same time. It got to be game as to who would spot the first animal or animals. Then teach them on how judge them. Most years I go home without an animal, because it didn't measured up. I don't care, it was the hunt that mattered.
Taking does cut the population down, but there are thinning that is needed to be done too. A buck can services a great many does. Washington if I remember correctly has a 4 point or more in there muley hunting only. I noted sometime back there was a lot of large bucks, but 3 points or under. No small small buck with 4 points showing up either with small racks.
Arizona has so many hunting seasons, and it's taken it tole too. Montana in a lot of ways has done the same thing. Wolves are another big problem in several states, and have cut down all of herds down too. Wyoming has worked hard to keep the wolves down. Idaho is working reducing the Wolves too, to get it back into line.
I feel that what it should be, is take a wolf first, then you get your deer and elk tag. If they want to see wolves, then the wolves are safe in the National Parks. Outside of that they are fair game anytime of the year, like in Wyoming. No tags or license required.
with you bud! 100%There's quite a few of you that will read this post and you'll just get mad and try to tell me how it is. Cool, you do that. I will hit "ignore" on every one of you without hesitation. If you want to disagree, you better do so in a manner befitting a Christian. Fact is, I have almost nothing in common with most "hunters" these days, and I'd rather be disliked by all of them than be "popular" among that crowd.
This post is for the rest of you. The guys that are trying to be good responsible sportsmen that know how to manage our resources.
My request is this: Learn how to score on the hoof. Stop shooting immature animals. If you want food and the joy of the hunt... do it with a doe. They taste better.
That is all.
I'm out scouting for pronghorn, as I usually do this time of year. Some areas of the country you see massive pronghorn regularly. Tags are hard to get in those areas. Permission to hunt, even harder to get. They grow big there, because most hunters are kept out.
That's not true of my area. Here, there isn't much for sizable pronghorn. Fewer and fewer sizable anything, actually.
It's a sad reality when in order to foster trophy animals, hunters must be kept away. Yet, despite how sad, that is very true of many hunters. We're suppose to care... not just look for instant gratification of a kill on our vacation from our life, wife, and job.
Took this guys picture 15 minutes ago... and I know the majority of hunters would blast him if given the opportunity. Sure, he's a "nice" goat. He's got decent cutters, decent length, decent mass, and there's even some ivory there.
Though he sure doesn't have much of a curl does he? I bet he's 3yrs old is all. Next year he'll be nice. Two years, he'll be a STUD! What do you think he scores?
Now compare what you see above, to a real trophy pronghorn. Here's a 90" goat from pronghornguideservice instagram page:
Now what do you think that first goat I posted scored?
I'm talking about pronghorn here, but the same applies to every species. Just let them walk. What is the big deal? Shoot a doe for as many years as you need to foster some proper management of the species. Teach this restraint to the younger generation. If you don't, then $10,000+ per hunt guides will be the only place any of us get to hunt a real trophy. You can very likely still do all the things that are important to you on your hunt without shooting an immature buck.
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There is nothing an unprincipled man hates more than a principled man.
So if it's legal, it's good huh? It has been "legal" for the state of california to ban AR15's. It's legal for government agencies to bankrupt good men over a technicality. The legal system rarely has anything to do with what is right or just. Something tells me unprincipled men will pick and choose when they want to use the law as a shield or as a sword in their arguments. Principled men will always be at odds with unprincipled men. This thread is just one example of it.
@codyadams, I appreciate your post. Respecting me as you say, and I take you at your word, you'll understand that I knew in advance full well the reception my thread would receive here, yet I posted it anyway. Think on that some if you like and give me a call after with your thoughts. I'd like to hear them. I share my opinion, with no one in my crosshairs. They identify themselves, label themselves, and attack me for it. I didn't know who I was talking about specifically, but they all sure did, didn't they?
The saddest part is, they think I'm the one judging them.
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So if it's legal, it's good huh? It has been "legal" for the state of california to ban AR15's. It's legal for government agencies to bankrupt good men over a technicality. The legal system rarely has anything to do with what is right or just. Something tells me unprincipled men will pick and choose when they want to use the law as a shield or as a sword in their arguments. Principled men will always be at odds with unprincipled men. This thread is just one example of it.
@codyadams, I appreciate your post. Respecting me as you say, and I take you at your word, you'll understand that I knew in advance full well the reception my thread would receive here, yet I posted it anyway. Think on that some if you like and give me a call after with your thoughts. I'd like to hear them. I share my opinion, with no one in my crosshairs. They identify themselves, label themselves, and attack me for it. I didn't know who I was talking about specifically, but they all sure did, didn't they?
The saddest part is, they think I'm the one judging them.
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