And your Toyota will be running in 20 years with minimal maintenance, which Lambo won't. I fell for a V 12 Mercedes once. Absolutely worst piece of junk I ever owned. Broke down constantly.
The New Tangent Theta 5-25x56
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Joefrazell
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Good luck with the wife thing haha. I'm pretty sure that most of us that are here can afford a 5k scope it's just the difference between priorities in our lives. Kinda like a $600 primer seater. Yeah I can afford it but I'm not going to. Maybe one day I'll see change my mind but right now I'd rather dump 5k into a hunt then a scope because my 2k dollar scope does great for me. It's all just priorities and your right, everyone has them and shouldn't be judged on what they spend their money on if it works for them.
5x magnification multiplier is where you'll find things looking good. Less will look better. There's a lot of reasons why TT's offer the highest resolution, and that's one of them. The more magnification multiplier you find in a lens prescription... the worse other areas such as resolution, light management, and fisheye get. If there were room in the spec to work with more magnification range, they'd have done it... but I'd talk them out of it if they tried. There's a limit to what glass and coatings are capable of if you set the bar high enough regarding image quality.
The utility of magnification ranges beneath 5x in a FFP just isn't there. During training I will frequently instruct shooters to engage targets from 100yds to 1000yds. I tell them, "use your magnification ring freely... put it wherever you want." No one, and I mean NO ONE is below 10x. Ever. I've conducted numerous surveys of shooters in a training setting, and asked them where they are in magnification when they are sitting waiting for an animal and also where they dial magnification to when executing a shot on said animal. Most people sit at 5-10x, and engage at 10-16x on average.
Yet its typical for someone purchasing a scope to want it to be just as capable in a CQB shoot house as it is in an ELR competition. While its a nice thought, there are limitations in physics as well as opto-mechanical design. Those with a little bit of experience, know what is practical and what is not. The rest is just people making purchasing decisions on a whim which are anchored from inexperience. ... and nothing makes an irrational inexperienced person mad faster, than pointing out just how little experience they have. They want their opinion to matter just as much as anyone else's... even when it shouldn't. Even when the experience level of others make their level look like a 2 store town house sitting next to the sears tower. The last thing in the world they will do is sit down, close their mouths, and open their eyes. It's just not in their nature.
If TT came out with a 5-20 that was the same size as the current 315M, with the turret style from the P-series, except small like the M... I'd pay whatever they asked for it. That would be the ultimate hunting scope.
I appreciate the kind words. It is the dozens of people saying those very things to me that convinced me to stay. I'm far from perfect, and when I am being selfish, I think "why should I hang around that place?!?! It's full of tiny, angry, broken people that don't want me there." Then I get an outpouring of support from every communication method I use. Then I feel small for giving in so easily. I feel guilty for withholding the gifts that have been given to me. I don't like that feeling. People endure far more than unkind words and still keep going. Jesus had very few supporters, yet he never gave up, even when he was put through the worst. Yes, I compare myself to Jesus... just as WE ALL SHOULD. Everyone has their cross to carry. We all have our trials to endure. Remembering what He endured for us is critical. Remembering that no matter what happened, he saw his mission fulfilled. Those of you reading this that are my brothers & sisters in Christ will understand. Those of you that aren't, well you'll use that to condemn me just like you always do. So have at it. Your worn out attacks are meaningless to me, and only hurt you.
It's very telling of the nature of someone that will follow people from thread to thread, digging up 2 month old posts, just to be disruptive. Think about it. How does it help the person doing it? Are they making money from it? Are they moving forward in life? Are they getting satisfaction? They might think they are, but all they are doing is continuing the downward spiral of their life. They are getting delight from disrupting people. Getting happiness at someone else's suffering. They take joy in tormenting others. It isn't helping them. Every vitriolic post they make sends them further into the abyss. These people that engage in that behavior on forums are mentally ill. How unbelievably sad. I literally think of the reality of their lives, and it nearly moves me to tears.
People don't realize why I want to withdraw from this place and every forum. After 20 years of being attacked by these people on forums, it doesn't even affect me in the way they think it does. How could it? It's the same people, over and over again, making the same accusations, the same threats, the same insults, and the same flagging of their own trauma. When I was young and stupid, it affected me exactly as they intended. The past 4'ish years? All it does is make me sad for them. Infinitely sad. Sad to the point where looking at their shameful shell of humanity and realizing that they don't even know how to be happy... breaks my heart. The realization that all they think they can justify tormenting other people in a hollow attempt to mask their own lack of self worth. The realization that they are so stuck in their psychosis that no one will be able to say anything to them to get them to realize they don't need to be that way. I weep for them and anyone that has the misfortune to be in their lives. Even if they can keep their real lives under control enough for no one to notice, someone that can come on the internet anonymously and act the way these people act is telling of their true nature. They are a destructive force, always. They only feel normal when they are in a fight. The loudest detractors, almost never have any experience with the thing they are trying to tear down. They don't even think that's an issue! lol They think they can defend that indefensible position. The thought of how difficult life must be for someone like that, basically crushes me. I feel nothing but pain for these people, and everyone in their lives. There is nothing worse for a logical person than to have to deal with an illogical person. I can't imagine the turmoil in their lives.
I think of the lives these people must have led. The trauma they have endured. Their fathers beat them. Their families betrayed them. Their wives treat them with disrespect. The number of people disrespecting their wives by making comments about how mad their wife will be if they buy something, but there they are on the phone asking me about it anyway... is disgusting. If they were any kind of men, they would be in charge of their finances, and their wives would never be upset at anything they bought. They know their relationship is Biblically wrong, and having to answer to their wives regarding a patriarchal duty makes them feel inferior, and rightfully so. If that's not the real situation, then they are using their derogatory comment about their wife as a tool to get off the phone without making a commitment to buy, which is the sign of a weak man. A strong man that is secure, would simply say they need some time to think things over. They wouldn't disrespect their wife just because its socially acceptable and often expected. Their employers dominate them and hold their financial well being over them like a carrot in front of a donkey that has no choice but to keep walking. So they come here, and they create a personality. A personality that can behave however they want to behave... and they feel powerful. All they need to do is persistently badger people and they'll eventually win... because what intelligent person would endure that and not just leave?
There has always been toxic and negative people. They have never known what they were doing. They couldn't escape their pain for long enough to even ask the question. There will always be toxic and negative people. Always complaining about money problems, and never once realizing that if they'd simply ask for what they want, they'd receive it. If they spent even 1/10th of the effort they spend convincing themselves they don't want something on working toward getting it... they'd have it. The truth is, most don't know what they want, or why they are getting what they are getting.
I could, and often times want to, disappear from view... everywhere. Just quietly live out my life shooting stuff every day. It would be so unbelievably easy, and none of these negative people would ever enter my thoughts. The day God takes me home, you all better throw a party, because my obligation to help people in need will finally be gone. I won't have to explain anything to anyone anymore. Those of you that contact me when I'm feeling like I can't possibly take being confronted with the reality of how many broken souls are on this forum... I thank you. You keep me from squandering my gifts. It is through your encouragement that I've found the strength to continue. Not on every forum, but here on LRH for the moment. You remind me that these gifts aren't mine, I'm just borrowing them. I have a duty to perform, and I'm going to give it my best shot. I get weary from constantly being confronted by angry bitter people. They don't even think about the fact they are showing the world their massive trauma. Their hurt is like a giant sign above their heads. I am so desperate to help them see a better way, and I often forget that isn't my job.
My job is to be an example, and be available when someone needs use of my gifts. So I'll keep posting pictures of my awesome rifles. I'll keep providing content. I'll keep talking with our amazing customers. I'll keep spreading the word of Jesus. I'll keep trying to get people to be positive instead of negative. I'll keep resisting people that try to tear everything down and attack others. I'll keep praying for them to find victory. I'll keep being thankful of those of you that spare a kind word to remind me of my obligation to He that is most high. I'll fail sometimes... but I won't stop trying my best.
I hope you all have a wonderful sunday. I'm off to start worship with my family here in our home, and I'll be thinking of you.
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WildRose
Well-Known Member
Had a friend who had the same experience with a v12 Jag.
It was a blast on the open highway when it was running though!
The car analogy presented here, does not apply with high end optics I don't think. There's no concern of a Tangent Theta coming out of time or fouling plugs. 
The Unertl in that picture was an expensive scope once too. No one regrets buying one. There's certainly nothing wrong with it today, over 70 years later. Scopes costing over $5000 today doesn't seem strange to me. The fact that you can get a Remington 700 for LESS than $1500... that seems strange to me, because that's roughly what it would cost in todays dollars to buy one in 1970. With price adjusted for inflation, that Unertl would sell for roughly $1500 today, yet you can not buy the scope pictured for that. It would cost in excess or $2200-$3000 if you wanted to buy that one at the moment. Not much there for the dollar when you compare it to the complexity of modern designs. There's not a single part of the rifle scopes we use today that haven't undergone a huge upgrade, but I dare say that Unertl probably holds zero better than most $1500 scopes of today. It certainly is nicer to look through!
If we get into the 80's up into the 2000's and compare something in the class to today, Schmidt & Benders have become cheaper. Much cheaper, actually. A new S&B PMII 5-25 in 2005, adjusted for inflation, would be over $5000 today, yet you can go buy one for far less than that. My last PMII cost roughly $2600. So the real question I have for you is... why are they cheaper today? Why are MOST rifles and optics cheaper today than when they launched? Companies are making them cheaper, that's why. They are making them cheaper, yet making just as much profit percentage per unit, and in many cases MORE profit than ever. Obviously manufacturing capabilities have allowed for producing more of the same thing at a lesser cost, but that doesn't cover all of it.
Tangent Theta Professional series scopes are more impressive than any other optic I've used to date. It stands to reason they would be expensive, and frankly given the fiscal reality of inflation and product quality I just laid out, I'm surprised they don't cost more. It's very obvious not everyone needs or wants that level of capability on their rifle. Folks, I'm not here to convince anyone to spend money you don't want to spend. However, remaining objective when talking about products is a pretty important thing. It's likely that for most shooters, a gen3 vortex razor would be a better use of their money. It's going to be pretty hard to find a better value to dollar ratio than that scope. Frankly, that scope makes it kind of not smart to buy any other scope in that class. For large format tactical type scopes, Tangent Theta and the vortex gen3 razor are about the only scopes that exist in my mind at the moment when making recommendations. Yet there is only one best, and there's no reason for anyone to tear down the best in order to justify the purchase of a lesser optic.
The moment a new "best" scope arrives, we'll be selling those. At this time, the Tangent Theta's are it, and have been since 2014. Those of you that are looking for the apex level experience in a rifle scope, that is what you want. I wish I could send out demos to everyone that wanted to check one out. Then people would get a chance to see for themselves.
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The Unertl in that picture was an expensive scope once too. No one regrets buying one. There's certainly nothing wrong with it today, over 70 years later. Scopes costing over $5000 today doesn't seem strange to me. The fact that you can get a Remington 700 for LESS than $1500... that seems strange to me, because that's roughly what it would cost in todays dollars to buy one in 1970. With price adjusted for inflation, that Unertl would sell for roughly $1500 today, yet you can not buy the scope pictured for that. It would cost in excess or $2200-$3000 if you wanted to buy that one at the moment. Not much there for the dollar when you compare it to the complexity of modern designs. There's not a single part of the rifle scopes we use today that haven't undergone a huge upgrade, but I dare say that Unertl probably holds zero better than most $1500 scopes of today. It certainly is nicer to look through!
If we get into the 80's up into the 2000's and compare something in the class to today, Schmidt & Benders have become cheaper. Much cheaper, actually. A new S&B PMII 5-25 in 2005, adjusted for inflation, would be over $5000 today, yet you can go buy one for far less than that. My last PMII cost roughly $2600. So the real question I have for you is... why are they cheaper today? Why are MOST rifles and optics cheaper today than when they launched? Companies are making them cheaper, that's why. They are making them cheaper, yet making just as much profit percentage per unit, and in many cases MORE profit than ever. Obviously manufacturing capabilities have allowed for producing more of the same thing at a lesser cost, but that doesn't cover all of it.
Tangent Theta Professional series scopes are more impressive than any other optic I've used to date. It stands to reason they would be expensive, and frankly given the fiscal reality of inflation and product quality I just laid out, I'm surprised they don't cost more. It's very obvious not everyone needs or wants that level of capability on their rifle. Folks, I'm not here to convince anyone to spend money you don't want to spend. However, remaining objective when talking about products is a pretty important thing. It's likely that for most shooters, a gen3 vortex razor would be a better use of their money. It's going to be pretty hard to find a better value to dollar ratio than that scope. Frankly, that scope makes it kind of not smart to buy any other scope in that class. For large format tactical type scopes, Tangent Theta and the vortex gen3 razor are about the only scopes that exist in my mind at the moment when making recommendations. Yet there is only one best, and there's no reason for anyone to tear down the best in order to justify the purchase of a lesser optic.
The moment a new "best" scope arrives, we'll be selling those. At this time, the Tangent Theta's are it, and have been since 2014. Those of you that are looking for the apex level experience in a rifle scope, that is what you want. I wish I could send out demos to everyone that wanted to check one out. Then people would get a chance to see for themselves.
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Tanget Theta 3-15x50mm Scope Evaluation
This will be a running evaluation on a TT 3-15x50mm Professional Marksman scope with Gen2 XR reticle. I am not being paid to evaluate, nor is it for TT. It is a sample of one. A single sample is not “data”. If it does well, that doesn’t mean the majority will; if it does poorly, that doesn’t...
www.rokslide.com
This thread has caused a bit of a stink around the internet. As someone that has used a lot of tangents have you experienced these issues? Idk if you represent tangent or just are a dealer but have you spoken to this user about this test?
Tanget Theta 3-15x50mm Scope Evaluation
This will be a running evaluation on a TT 3-15x50mm Professional Marksman scope with Gen2 XR reticle. I am not being paid to evaluate, nor is it for TT. It is a sample of one. A single sample is not “data”. If it does well, that doesn’t mean the majority will; if it does poorly, that doesn’t...
This thread has caused a bit of a stink around the internet. As someone that has used a lot of tangents have you experienced these issues? Idk if you represent tangent or just are a dealer but have you spoken to this user about this test?
We're just a dealer. I have no other relationship with them.
I currently have 11 Tangent Theta's mounted to my rifles. Some I've had mounted to the same rifle since 2014. Tens of thousands of rounds. None have ever shifted zero, and I've subjected some of them to a much harder whack than getting dropped on a squishy shooting mat on soft dirt. I've zeroed and worked with a pile of others on customer rifles. None have ever exhibited the behavior of that guy on rokslide. Conversely, every other major manufacturers scope I've used, has failed in one way or the next. This is kind of the point of why we ONLY sell Tangent Theta. I don't like customer service calls on optics, and ever since we stopped selling other brands, I have only received 3 customer service calls, and only one instance did a scope actually have a manufacturer defect. Three scopes sent back to TT, only one of which had an actual manufacturing issue which was a tight spot in the diopter lock ring, in 7 years. The other scope someone stripped out the turret lock screws on a 315m from going Mongo on them.
All I've experienced and all I've ever heard from customers is how amazing they are, how they hold zero always, how they track perfectly, how amazing the turrets are, how forgiving the parallax is, and how amazing they are to look through. Every hunting season I get carpet bombed by trophy pics and thank you's from those same customers.
A rifle that can barely hold MOA, in a cheap chassis, performing in a manner that literally no other person has experienced or reported. To say it's an isolated incident would seem to be an understatement. I'd suggest he contact TT and get a replacement. Someone's going to be the first guy to get a TT that won't track or hold zero. Maybe it was him. I can't think of another scope company that has gone this long without it happening.
I have never seen scopes subjected to the torture that Tangent Theta scopes get subjected to. The amount of money and effort that company has spent to ensure their product is without equal, is astonishing. Here's testing. Real testing.
I hope that adequately answers your question and helps to provide some perspective. If there's anything else I can answer for you, feel free to give me a call anytime!
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btap1991
Well-Known Member
I don't think these scopes need help selling for comp shooters talk them up enough.
I can see why people who hunt can't see why they would spend more as their probably not shooting far enough to miss a shot due to their glass.
I do have a question though.. been through a fair amount of nicer scopes so the s &b has been my favorite. I have never tried or looked through one of these. Are they a big step up?
Yes.
The difference between the parallax forgiveness alone is huge. The turrets are a gigantic leap forward. Basically every category is better in the TT.
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Bigger, bulkier, significantly better turrets on the P-series. More travel in the P-series due to the 34mm tube. The clicks on the M are great, but there is no tool-less zero stop.
Optically, they are the same. Obviously the 5-25x56 stands on its own as there is no 5-25 M.
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I never even heard of Tangent Theta until I joined this site and I have hunted and shot since I was about 4 years old. Actually I just looked them up yesterday because of a comment on another post I was reading, blew my mind when I saw the[price tag but it immediately had me thinking what I could do to get somewhere where I could look through one. Looks like a great scope and I hope one day to own one. WTH its only money and everyone on this site spends a lot of money if your a long range shooter, comes with the territory. I appreciate the OP and hope one day I can contact orkan to order one. Just my opinion fellas.
I see you're just over in montana. I'm in northwestern South Dakota. If you ever feel like stopping by, just give me a call and I can put more high end optics in front of you than you can shake a stick at. If you left here without a TT, I'd be shocked. lol
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How far are you from Sturgis?I see you're just over in montana. I'm in northwestern South Dakota. If you ever feel like stopping by, just give me a call and I can put more high end optics in front of you than you can shake a stick at. If you left here without a TT, I'd be shocked. lol
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