Taking the plunge soon. Subscribing to the adage: Buy once, cry once. Whittling down options in a new higher end optic, and a ZCO caught my eye. Anyone own one or have experience with Zero Compromise? Scares the bejeezers outta me to spend that much on good glass, but know quality glass is king--especially for my old peepers. Also in the mix are Leup Mk5HD, Steiner T5Xi, March FX, and Kahles 624i. Would love a TT but not sure I could get that past The Wife without a hot tongue and a cold shoulder. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Buy once cry once new optic - seeking experienced advice
- Thread starter Hogbreath55
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
milo-2
Well-Known Member
If it is on your mind, it will be on your rifle, don't fight it, lol
It's tough today to define high end, but like you, my eyes aren't what they used to be. I like my ZCO527, so much so I have the ZC840 on order.
We all see things differently, not doing a review, but comparing the ZCO to my Kahles 525i's, I just wish I had skipped the Kahles phase of my life. I have no history with the March FX, but the rest of your choices are really not in the same league as the ZCO.
Also, does March have US support anymore?
It's tough today to define high end, but like you, my eyes aren't what they used to be. I like my ZCO527, so much so I have the ZC840 on order.
We all see things differently, not doing a review, but comparing the ZCO to my Kahles 525i's, I just wish I had skipped the Kahles phase of my life. I have no history with the March FX, but the rest of your choices are really not in the same league as the ZCO.
Also, does March have US support anymore?
Not sure on March support. Warranty is also a big plus in my book. If I may ask, what bases are you using with the larger dia tubes? Spuhr, Tier One or Era Tac? Not a lot of choices one minor drawback to the ZCO, maybe?
Not sure about March support. If I may ask, what bases did you choose for the 36mm tubes? Spuhr, Era Tac, Tier One? Doesnt seem to be a lot of choices. Like i said, buy once cry once, i can see about 4 $450-500 bases on my pea shooters and move the scope around til I can sneak another glass into the safe :
)
)
Last edited:
WildRose
Well-Known Member
All I can tell you is that before you take the plunge find some way to really look through the scopes you are considering.
Then consider such things as the warranty/service promises vs reputation of the makers, where they are manufactured and where the components come from.
Also consider realistically your needs and how you will be using the scope ion the future. You don't need to be able to count hairs on a mouse at a mile to put a bullet where it needs to be on a deer at 300yds, or even an elk or moose at 600-1000yds.
I'm a practical guy, I would never own a Ferrari but I'd spend more than book value on a 1982 Toyota FJ if the right one came along.
When I look at the ZCO's my greatest concerns would be the weight, they are a heavy optic, and how long the company has been around. Will they still be here honoring their warranty 10-20 years from now?
All of the optics you mention are of very high quality, the two I'm most familiar with are the Luepold and Steiner Optics, they both make outstanding scopes and stand behind them as well as anyone in the industry and better than most.
I don't personally own any Kahles scopes but I have used some of them that belong to friends and found them to be very well made top to bottom.
After making the rounds of quite a few top line scopes over the years I found my money was best spent on Leupold and think the VX-5 series really offers a tremendous value for the dollar. I mostly Shoot Leupold VX-6's but the 5's really offer a whole lot for the money.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
This might help. It appears they only have a 10 year warranty and have a US warranty/service center.Not sure about March support. If I may ask, what bases did you choose for the 36mm tubes? Spuhr, Era Tac, Tier One? Doesnt seem to be a lot of choices. Like i said, buy once cry once, i can see about 4 $450-500 bases on my pea shooters and move the scope around til I can sneak another glass in the safe :
brcfo_outdoors
Well-Known Member
I would take the Steiner off the list. My personal experience with Steiner and I think the general consensus is that they have good glass but otherwise don't really compete at the level of some of the others you mentioned, especially ZCO. I personally sent back a GS3 twice to get black flecks cleaned out of the tube which they never managed to do. Included pictures and descriptions both times and all they did was tell me to send it in again. A lifetime guarantee is not worth the paper its printed on if they don't actually fix the problem. I had the P4Xi which was sort of the poor man's T5Xi as well as a Burris XTR II, both with the SCR reticles and was underwhelmed. Way too thick at maximum magnification to be useable for precision applications.
No need to worry about 36mm options for the ZCO. There's plenty of them. All the ones you listed plus ZCO makes their own. Right now they have rings and next week their block mounts will hit dealers. I wish Spuhr would make their hunting mount in 36mm but ZCOs new Slim Line mount will be 5oz so no need now.
As far as what you're getting for your money, the only downside is that they aren't light. They also aren't heavy. They weigh pretty much the same as other optics in that category. Outside of that, they are incredible optomechanically and customer service is excellent. Also, all service/repairs is done in Idaho. That's a big deal.
The name is reflective of what you get. I've had several. I bought and sold a bunch of scopes over the last couple years and I've come back to ZCO because everything else leaves me wanting what the ZCO has. The only brand I haven't owned or used is Tangent Theta, which undoubtedly are exceptional as well, but the only option of theirs I'm really interested in is their 3-15M. If I'm going to pay a 5-7oz weight penalty I'd get another 4-20 ZCO.
Some people don't like messing with the locking turrets, and as a result they offer a model with non locking elevation and if you want you can have them make the windage non locking as well. Personally, I love the non locking elevation model.
You certainly won't be disappointed in the performance of the ZCO. If anything you'll try and justify buying another.
As far as what you're getting for your money, the only downside is that they aren't light. They also aren't heavy. They weigh pretty much the same as other optics in that category. Outside of that, they are incredible optomechanically and customer service is excellent. Also, all service/repairs is done in Idaho. That's a big deal.
The name is reflective of what you get. I've had several. I bought and sold a bunch of scopes over the last couple years and I've come back to ZCO because everything else leaves me wanting what the ZCO has. The only brand I haven't owned or used is Tangent Theta, which undoubtedly are exceptional as well, but the only option of theirs I'm really interested in is their 3-15M. If I'm going to pay a 5-7oz weight penalty I'd get another 4-20 ZCO.
Some people don't like messing with the locking turrets, and as a result they offer a model with non locking elevation and if you want you can have them make the windage non locking as well. Personally, I love the non locking elevation model.
You certainly won't be disappointed in the performance of the ZCO. If anything you'll try and justify buying another.
Very much agree with WildRose recommendations, hard part is finding all of the optics to inspect before I buy.
milo-2
Well-Known Member
American Rifle Co rings, but as a poster above mentioned, this is one heavy setup.
M10 Scope Rings
WildRose
Well-Known Member
That would narrow things down pretty quickly for me.
A few years back I got bitten by the bug and bought 5 identical scopes all by the "hottest" new maker on the block at better than 1,000.00 per scope.
Two years later I sold them all at a considerable loss on Ebay just to get rid of them because I was fed up with having to send them back for warranty work repeatedly.
I'll never drop that kind of cash on another scope without having spent some serious time looking through not just that maker's products but the same line or even specific model I'm considering with the exception of 1 and That's Leupold.
I've never felt like I got less than what I expected or paid for with a Leupold Product so they pretty well have earned my blind loyalty after more than 30 scopes over better than 40 years.
Best of all, in all of that time I've only ever had to sent two in for any sort of warranty or repair work and in both cases it was due to something I did to the scope. One had a horse roll on it and the other had a bad fall.
Both resulted in new scopes even though I told them what I'd done.
Talk to @lancetkenyon for the real-world experience; he will give it to you straight up. He has the majority of the scope you are considering. Good luck!
lancetkenyon
Well-Known Member
Out of the scopes you mentioned, I will give you my experience. I either own/owned, or shot behind several examples of them.
First, with the mention of the Kahles K624i and March FX (I assume the 4.5-28×56), I will also assume the Steiner T5Xi would be the 5-25×56, the Leupold Mk5HD 5-25×56 and the ZCO 5-27×56?
If you are talking about the 3-15×50 to 4-20×50 range, same advice will apply, but I will give some other options to consider as well in the true ALPHA level glass choices.
Hands down, 1000% best scope in your list is the ZCO. Nothing else even compares, or in the same ballpark. Practically not even in the same sport. Like comparing T-ball to high school ball to the Major League. It is that much better than the rest. I own two ZCOs. And have shot behind several others. The ONLY downfall compared to some of the others is the added weight.
Glass is insane, DOF, color, contrast, clarity, pop, edge to edge, etc. Turrets are amazingly tactile and audible, maybe even better than TT, repaetable, tracks true, RTZ has never failed in mine, mag and parallax rings are perfect tension. Locking turrets are just the right tension. Good reticles available in the MPCT1 for an uncluttered, or MPCT2 & MPCT3 if you want a Christmas Tree style. I have an MPCT1 and an MPCT2. I use the ARC M10 36mm rings with mine. Amazing rings, and super easy to set up.
Steiner T5Xi. I had one of the first run T5Xi 5-25×56 @ $2k. It was comparable to my $1400 SWFA 5-20×50HD. But much more frustrating. I had to send mine back for repairs 3 times and it never got resolved to my satisfaction, and this was before I got any of the real top tier scopes to compare it to. So it really put a bad taste in my mouth for the scope. Glass was just average. My parallax was terrible. I spent 2+ hours to get the diopter and parallax "close". I could never get the parallax completely out and have the target image clear. Mag ring had huge slop in it. Turrets are cool and the 2nd rotation indicator is cool, and felt good and audible, but a touch less tactile than other turrets. The SCR reticle in mine was medium grey, not black like every other etched reticle is. This never got fixed. I think there is a reason you don't see a lot of these out in the wild. I think the line was a flop from the beginning, and word and reviews spread, reallybputting a damper on referrals and sales. I have not shot behind another one to compare. I would avoid unless you can find a used one for $1k-ish. I think more than that and the price point exceeds the scope. Other will disagree. But no way was mine a $2k scope.
March FX 4.5-28×52. These are better than the March F 3-24×52 in my opinion. I owned one of the 3-24 for a while. The huge draw with that one was the 24oz and the 8x erector. March got away from both with a 29oz scope and 5.5x erector. This actually helps the scopes performance however, along with the "High Master" glass. Eye box is better, parallax is far more forgiving. Glass is noticeably better, but still not up with the big boys like ZCO, TT, S&B, Minox ZP5, Hensoldt class. Turrets are very good, track perfectly, and tactile and audible. Reticle designs are OK to good. FOV with the new WA eye piece is amazing. The 4.5x appears as wide as other 3x. Length is nice too. It would probably be a close choice for 2nd with the Kahles, each beat the other in certain areas.
Kahles would more than likely be my second choice. But, I would look for a used one in the $2k-2400 price range. I don't think they carry their weight in the $3200+ price range.
I had a K624i for years. It replaced my T5Xi, and I was ecstatic with the upgrade. Even at +$1200 more at the time.
The K624i is known for the wide FOV at 6x, comparable to most 5x FOV. I had the SKMR reticle, and absolutely loved it. One of my all-time favorite uncluttered reticles. Turrets were excellent, tactile and audible, tracking was perfect. Glass was very good, on par with NF ATACR glass. A common complaint is the CA (chromatic abberation), or seeing a purple/yellow haze around high contrast black/white. The only reason I got ride of mine was it was on my daughter's 15.5# 6.5SLR, and when we shot the barrel out at 2800 rounds, I completely rebuilt it and shed 5#. The scope change was only due to weight reduction. Parallax is very forgiving, as well as the eye box. But parallax placement takes getting used to.
Leupold Mark 5HD. I don't own one, but Inhave shot behind several. I like the "zero stop/turret lock" button. Turrets are good. Leupold has a reputation for tracking issues, so it is a no-go for me. I don't like the TMR/TMOA reticle. But there are some I do like, the PR1 & PR2 Mil. Glass is OK. Not on par with the top for sure, but price is not in the same ballpark either. Seems like my buddy is always saying his drops are off at 500+ with several rifles wearing Mark 5HDs, which leads me to believe tracking is not 100%.
If you are seriously looking in the $3500+ price range, there would be a few other scopes I would suggest looking at as well. But, I still think the ZCO beats them.
If weight is a concern more than a 25-28x top end, the Tangent Theta TT315M or TT315H at 3-15×50 & 27oz are amazing. I own 4 of the TT315M. I shoot them out to 1500+ monthly. Same glass as the P lines, turrets are insane. But are "only" dual turn 6MIL, so 12MIL of elevation usable adjustment. The 5-25×56 TT525P is in a whole other price range. And the pinnacle of scopes.
Their are a few different S&B PMII lines to consider. You can find them used at significant discounts too. S&B is to be considered the "Gold Standard" of scopes, being the OG for top tier for decades. Even being dated designs and glass, they still rank right up there with the "best".
5-25×56 (in a DT, or MTC/LT version)
If you are looking for smaller/lighter and in the 20x top end, the 3-20×50Ultra Short and 5-20×50 Ultra Short are amazing scopes. I own one of each. But, unless you go with a really high mounting solution, they really only fit on a short action.
Then there is the 3.5-27×56 Hi-Power, but they are in the TT525P+ price range.
The Kahles K525i and K318i differ a bit from the K624i. Glass is better, but for some reason, FOV was narrowed. I have a K318i currently on a .260AI, and love it.
The Minox ZP5 line (3-15×50 & 5-25×56) are very close to the S&B PMII and barely behind the ZCO lines. They are not as popular, but glass is excellent. Some complain about the 2nd rotation gets stiff as it transfers over, and some complained of a stiff mag ring. Minor inconveniences on a great scope. They rarely come up used for a reason.
Then, there is the Hensoldt ZF 3.6-26×56. $8k. Yeah, I still don't have one of these either.
Premier Heritage are the old Tangent Theta. While discontinued and hard to suggest because of this, I have 2 (a Light Heritage 3-15×50 and a Heritage 5-25×56) that compete with Tangent, and get passed around my rifles and test rifles like a 3rd string cheerleader with self-esteem issues and a daddy complex. And keep on begging for more. I am currently running the 5-25×56 on my 25 Creed, but it has ridden on everything from a 6 Creed to a .300RUM. My 3-15 Light Heritage sits on my AR, but is my go-to for mounting on rifles that need a load development done and don't have their own scope yet.
Last edited:
