Scope Levels- Why?

[mwkelso]

When I was in construction I used to go to Sears and buy Craftsman levels because of the lifetime warranty. I only had to buy one time and when they got knocked around and out of level Sears would give me a new level, no questions asked. Sorry, I don't mean to change the topic here.

No worries! I can understand why lol

 

[WYO300RUM]

Maybe I wasn't clear in my thread response. If I use the Wheeler level product on the barrel and the top of the MOA one piece mount and use a level to put my scope vertical level with the one piece mount and the top of the rings, I find when I mount my rifle and look thru the scope the vertical is canted a few degrees counterclockwise or to the 11 o'clock position based on how the buttstock fits into the pocket of my shoulder.

Instead of trying to force the vertical reticle back to 12 o'clock which feels unnatural, I have gone to a process where I twist the scope vertical reticle at 12 o'clock when I mount the gun to shoot. That way, even though I may not be level with the top of the rings/MOA mount level, I've got a consistent vertical/horizontal reticle that I can replicate from shot to shot. My barrel doesn't care where reticle is a long as I do the same thing over and over. I never consider the lines on the target itself for alignment...I align the vertical and horizontal posts to level based on how I mount the gun and focus on a target. As I am a hunter more than a target shooter, this is my way of ensuring I get consistent on my mount and consistent on my scope reticle which is tied to my sight-in grouping.

My way of saying I don't see the need for a scope or ring level as it doesn't match my gun mount posture.

The same thing happens to me on every scope I mount. When it's leveled . I shoulder rifle and it's canted 11 o'clock. When shooting I have to think about looking at level and adjust. Bugs me. On a VX6 I use the internal leveling and Bubble together. They match perfect . Shoulder rifle. 11 o'clock. Oh well.

 

[Michael Souther]

OK, I'll call uncle. I'll get a Vortex scope level and mount on my rifle and reorient my scope in the rings to ensure it is level with the MOA base and top of scope mounts and try it. Will give up mounting my buttstock where it feels good to shoot and aligning my scope reticle to 12/3 to match that position.

I'll give it a try. Thanks.

With a little practice it will become more natural to mount the rifle more level. Like everything else practice really dies help. Adding the level to your rifle will help. I have them on all my guns and have improved my accuracy.

 

[Mram10us]

Only the reticle needs to be level here.

Are you saying I can hold the rifle sideways, but as long as the scope reticle is level, we are good? An extreme example, but shows that rifle and reticle must match. That is what the tall target test does. A plumb bob and levels get it close, but not right.

 

[AKPilot]

You...CAN'T CANT
AND You do not live in a Paralax Free Universe.

Words to live by in ELR game.

it matters not that scope is level to rifle!! What matters is that YOUR RETICLE IS LEVEL to the WORLD.

Human eye cannot detect CANT of 2 degrees. Cannot use horizon to level reticle when taking shot as often sloping. 2 degree CANT when taking shot at 1000 Yards is a MISS.

In short.
Put plumb bob at 100 Yards
Align vertical reticle to plumb bob
mount scope level to scope tube (Accuracy 1st is a great one for field use)
While scope reticle is still aligned with plumb bob center bubble on level.
Torque everything down.

if using Larue LR120 Type removable mount can now move scope between rifles do quick zero .. good to go.

Paralax now that's another conversation.

 

[thwatson2]

I only use levels on my long range sharps rifles. Looking thru peeps on sticks can throw off your hold a little at 800 plus yards. On scoped guns the crosshairs keep me pretty true, but based on your due diligence when mounting it

 

[Mram10us]

You...CAN'T CANT
AND You do not live in a Paralax Free Universe.

Words to live by in ELR game.

it matters not that scope is level to rifle!! What matters is that YOUR RETICLE IS LEVEL to the WORLD.

Human eye cannot detect CANT of 2 degrees. Cannot use horizon to level reticle when taking shot as often sloping. 2 degree CANT when taking shot at 1000 Yards is a MISS.

In short.
Put plumb bob at 100 Yards
Align vertical reticle to plumb bob
mount scope level to scope tube (Accuracy 1st is a great one for field use)
While scope reticle is still aligned with plumb bob center bubble on level.
Torque everything down.

if using Larue LR120 Type removable mount can now move scope between rifles do quick zero .. good to go.

Paralax now that's another conversation.

It does matter if the reticle and rifle are matched. The scope reticle is generally 1.5-2" above the bore. This creates a triangle if they don't match. Draw it on paper.
When you mount a scope, where is the step regarding leveling the rifle? How do you do this?

 

[RidgeReaper208]

1st introduction to a bubble level was Gunwerk's LRU, instructor made it easy to understand the value it would make in long range shooting application. Instructor was more than qualified, Retired Marine Scout Sniper with experience in "Spec Ops." He demonstrated what a canted and un-canted rifle would do at ranges from 100 to 1200 yards. Proof was in the pudding at that point!

When talking about precision anything, your strongest link is only as good as your weakest link. Bubble levels are relatively inexpensive and can make a good shooter a great shooter the first time they put the bubble level to use. Knowing this product exists and it cost less than a box of shells, why wouldn't we put a bubble level on any and all shooting platforms that we intend to be precise with?

Each to their own, but in this case it seems to be ignorant to not use a bubble level when shooting at long range!?!?

 

[LRNut]

I used to use the plumb bob method to level my scopes. Now use I a 20 story building that I know has sides perpendicular to the ground (I actually verified it using a rifle that I knew was level, but beyond that, if the top of the building aligns with the horizontal line and the side of the building aligns with the vertical crosshair, it is virtually assured that that the sides of the building are truly perpendicular). Much easier than the plumb bob method, but won't work once my place in Colorado is finished (cause I won't have any visible neighbors!).

Oh, by the way, before I rotate the scope I attach a Segway Reticle Leveler to the rifle, ensuring the rod is in a rail slot. Once the rifle itself is level, then I rotate the scope. I don't use the tool to level my reticle, just to ensure the rifle itself is level.

Every degree of cant will cause about .1 MOA horizontal displacement. It isn't a lot, but it is something that can be easily eliminated.

 

[milo-2]

Are you saying I can hold the rifle sideways, but as long as the scope reticle is level, we are good? An extreme example, but shows that rifle and reticle must match. That is what the tall target test does. A plumb bob and levels get it close, but not right.

Your barrel has no clue or preference at what angle it is shot at. Reticle is the only thing that needs to be level. You can shoot your stock at a 45 degree angle if the reticle is level. Just think about it for a second.

 

[Mram10us]

Your barrel has no clue or preference at what angle it is shot at. Reticle is the only thing that needs to be level. You can shoot your stock at a 45 degree angle if the reticle is level. Just think about it for a second.

I thought about it for a second What happens when I dial up 20moa?

 

[TBell]

A lot of of archery...yes...minute screw up...huge impact differences....
Add trifocals into the mix....different levels of focus screw everything up.....misplace your shoulder...add more.....
Straight reticle....best of all worlds....round or flat.....

 

[Blueridgeguy]

What scope level brands do you prefer for consistency, ease of use and durability in 30mm?

 

[parshal]

I started putting levels on all my scopes (Nightforce). I've tried all the different methods for aligning the reticle. Now, I use a surface plate that's leveled with a .0005 machine level. I use the flat on the bottom of the scope which is 'supposed' be level with the reticle, at least according the NF, on the surface plate then install the level on the scope. Then, it's simple enough to align the scope to the rail using the flat on the bottom. The method sound much more complicated than it is. In the end, the scope's level is level to the reticle and the rail.

I've been using the Tubbs bubble levels due to their lightweight.