Carbon fiber barrel longevity?

[Orange Dust]

There may be something to this holding heat in, or not. My barrel is too new to know, but I did have a problem last weekend I will share. The barrel seems to want to shoot lights out. It looked like 88grs of Re33 might be the ticket with a 175. (28 Nosler) I was at an indoor range so no chrono. Its hot here outside LOL. Anyway, I shot the first group and it was fine. Waited a few minutes and the barrel seemed about ambient temp to the touch. Shot another three. This time 2" group in perfect line vertical. Looked like I added 1min to the scope with each shot. Extractor mark last shot. I have heard RE33 has some temp issues, but this is a first. You would have thought I added a grain with each shot. Obviously the barrel was still hot inside, and this powder is not compatable with this barrel. Going to try 8133 this weekend. This is my first Proof barrel, and it looks like there may be a learning curve......

 

[338 dude]

I may save up for one but im concerned about longevity and not due to being shot out but rather that carbonfiber and the glue used to bind it degrades over time and this just speeds up in sunlight. Do we know how long these barrels would be good for? Thanks!

I have had these barrels for four years I'm on my third and shoot quite a lot they are definitely lighter stiffer and you got a account for the cool factor as well but I have never had one problem about the glue or carbon degrading that will simply not happen in my opinion

 

[Jammer65]

Not sure where you are getting your information about degradation of the CF or the binding matrix, but that is inaccurate information. They are extremely stable and inert. Generally, CF barrels will last at least as long as a conventional SS barrel if not a bit longer due to its better heat dissipation capability.

 

[cohunt]

Jammer65-- what epoxy does Proof use? are they using nano CF strands? what about nano epoxy?
what about christensen, carbon six, bsf, etc?

since they all use "proprietary" materials how would we know if they are using insulating strands and epoxies or conducting? I'm not saying they are bad, CF is used in jet fighters, helicopter blades, race cars, race bikes, prosthesis, etc-- it is a remarkable material no doubt, BUT all carbon fibers and epoxies are not created equal so it's kind of a guessing game -- in my eyes the real question would be about the epoxies used

I am not sure that 1 answer would be correct for all the manufactures selling CF barrels right now-- a proof may last 100 years, but a carbon six may last 1/2 that or 2x that depending on what CF strands and epoxies they are using--they are just like everything else in the shooting industry-- they have their advantages, and disadvantages--its a hobby for most so buy what you want

I'm pretty sure that CF stocks are not using the same CF strands and epoxies as the barrels are using--but how would you know?

 

[Orange Dust]

There is no denying of one thing. A Manners CF stock with sponge camo, and the CF showing through in the black areas combined with a Proof Carbon barrel just look cool IMO. I bit, and love it. Now I just have to learn it.

 

[Wedgy]

There may be something to this holding heat in, or not. My barrel is too new to know, but I did have a problem last weekend I will share. The barrel seems to want to shoot lights out. It looked like 88grs of Re33 might be the ticket with a 175. (28 Nosler) I was at an indoor range so no chrono. Its hot here outside LOL. Anyway, I shot the first group and it was fine. Waited a few minutes and the barrel seemed about ambient temp to the touch. Shot another three. This time 2" group in perfect line vertical. Looked like I added 1min to the scope with each shot. Extractor mark last shot. I have heard RE33 has some temp issues, but this is a first. You would have thought I added a grain with each shot. Obviously the barrel was still hot inside, and this powder is not compatable with this barrel. Going to try 8133 this weekend. This is my first Proof barrel, and it looks like there may be a learning curve......

Speed will generally pick up after 20-50 shots on a new barrel. Also I have found Reloder 33 to pick up pressure very rapidly above ~84F and it is also very dirty requiring cleaning more often than other powders, developing a carbon ring in the throat can do what you are describing also. I f you let a round sit in a hot chamber it will boost the temp and pressure. Seems like N570 has been a good powder for the 28 Nos.

 

[Orange Dust]

Speed will generally pick up after 20-50 shots on a new barrel. Also I have found Reloder 33 to pick up pressure very rapidly above ~84F and it is also very dirty requiring cleaning more often than other powders, developing a carbon ring in the throat can do what you are describing also. I f you let a round sit in a hot chamber it will boost the temp and pressure. Seems like N570 has been a good powder for the 28 Nos.

N570 is unavailable around here. Bought some 8133 to try. I have had really good luck with some Alliant powders. Never tried them until Hodgdon became unavailable a while back. Closest in burn rate I can get around here is 8133. Its expensive, but that's ok since it is a pure hunting rifle. If that doesn't work, guess I will just lose some velocity and load H1000. It seems to always work. Rifle now has 50 rounds down the tube. Another thing I hated about RE33, I have never in my life seen a powder that bridged so badly in a measure, or is it just me???

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

Cf is close to the same as fiberglass--- it's just a woven cloth used as a strengthening fiber mesh then impregnated with epoxy so it would be based more on what epoxy they use than the cloth.
Fiberglass corvettes from as early as 1953 have dealt with heat, cold, snow, rain, wind and sun and are still around today . Poor build qc could show delam issues but generally it should be a sound product for a long time. Impacts are the death of cloth/epoxy as it causes issues with the resins. If you are concerned about uv stabilization of the resin you can always add a paint or uv stabilizer clear coat over the resin.
If they use nano fibers and nano resins it increases the strength and quality and decreases the internal flaws and voids.
The resins are the key to strength and longevity, the fibers are just reinforcement like rebar in concrete. As long as their resins are capable of withstanding the heat generated by the barrel and some uv protection from the sun it should/could easily last a life time.
If anything, I would be concerned with the galvanic corosion/compatability of the resin and steel barrel. Early cf bike frames had cf tubes epoxied to aluminum joints and had galvanic corrosion compatibility issues between the epoxy and aluminum.

CoHunt: thank you for the education.

 

[cohunt]

CoHunt: thank you for the education.

I'm no expert, but I was in the race car industry for years so my knowledge of CF technology just scratches the surface.
The science and technology behind epoxies would baffle your mind.. epoxy, polymers, plastics all the same but different....once you get into nano- technology it really gets deep.

CNC (or cellulose nano crystals- yes that's wood pulp) are stronger than both kevlar and carbon fiber...but Cf nanotubes are 2x the strength of cf or cnc's

 

[Shawn the printer]

I used to work in the composites industry. The resins they use today are varied with the application. As long as the manufacturers have done their homework, there really shouldn't be any problems for a long time.

 

[338 dude]

Jammer65-- what epoxy does Proof use? are they using nano CF strands? what about nano epoxy?
what about christensen, carbon six, bsf, etc?

since they all use "proprietary" materials how would we know if they are using insulating strands and epoxies or conducting? I'm not saying they are bad, CF is used in jet fighters, helicopter blades, race cars, race bikes, prosthesis, etc-- it is a remarkable material no doubt, BUT all carbon fibers and epoxies are not created equal so it's kind of a guessing game -- in my eyes the real question would be about the epoxies used

I am not sure that 1 answer would be correct for all the manufactures selling CF barrels right now-- a proof may last 100 years, but a carbon six may last 1/2 that or 2x that depending on what CF strands and epoxies they are using--they are just like everything else in the shooting industry-- they have their advantages, and disadvantages--its a hobby for most so buy what you want

I'm pretty sure that CF stocks are not using the same CF strands and epoxies as the barrels are using--but how would you know?

Out of all the manufacturers producing carbon fiber barrels I believe proof has a military contract I can't say that about anyone else so they must've passed some pretty stringent standards to be accepted by our military

 

[Orange Dust]

Out of all the manufacturers producing carbon fiber barrels I believe proof has a military contract I can't say that about anyone else so they must've passed some pretty stringent standards to be accepted by our military

Proof Carbon barrels have a reputation that is as good as any of the Premium makers. I would doubt anyone would dispute that, and I would consider it fact. If you want to try one, buy with confidence. They may or may not have some particulars with load development. I'm in the process of sorting out my first one. Can't say because I've never loaded for that cartridge before or used the powder I chose on the first pass. I do know it was a bad combination. I'm sure I will get it sorted out in a week or two. All part of the fun of a new toy.

 

[cohunt]

Out of all the manufacturers producing carbon fiber barrels I believe proof has a military contract I can't say that about anyone else so they must've passed some pretty stringent standards to be accepted by our military

"milspec" isn't always the "best spec" --I will agree that proof knows what it is doing when it comes to space craft and fighter jets, they in fact do hold a contract with the DOD for the barrels used on the barret MRAD-- but remember the MIL has different standards than the private sector when it comes to longevity-- you or I may want the barrel to last for 100+ years with low round counts-- the mil has totally different criteria for choosing manufactures and specifications-- they would probably be happy if a barrel lasted a few years with the round counts they go through--as others have said, barrels are consumables especially to the MIL

I'm not knocking polymers, CF barrels or proof, I'm just saying that without more knowledge of materials used and longevity testing there is no real way to know how long a CF barrel would last-- though I think they would last quite a long time. I would love to see a side by side longevity test done of a proof CF and SS barrel, but where would you start? how could you make the 2 "equals"

as we know marketing hype is used in every industry-- I bought a glass strand/CF reinforced polymer AR lower from a company that claims they have a background in aircraft design and manufacturing, they even brought an experimental aircraft to market-- the 8 oz. stripped lower fell less than 18" and it broke-- gotta use the right materials for the job with the right dimensions

 

[Zymurgist]

I may save up for one but im concerned about longevity and not due to being shot out but rather that carbonfiber and the glue used to bind it degrades over time and this just speeds up in sunlight. Do we know how long these barrels would be good for? Thanks!

Carbon fiber does degrade due to exposure to both UV light and moisture. I would imagine that the barrel manufacturer adds a photostabilizer to the resin mix to mitigate this. You could contact them and ask for specifics on what they do and if they've performed any accelerated environmental testing on their product.