Notes on the Centenerian

[Lycanit]

The

30-06 has a lower SAAMI MAP because its an older round. It will handle greater pressures with careful handloading. The .308 Win was brought out at the original MAP for the experimental T65 cartridge that the army was experimenting with, but when the 7.62 x 51 was adopted, the military went with a lower pressure round. I think it may have been because of the m1 conversions but I'm not sure.

Yes the saami regulates factory loaded ammo. Based on ancient history. The brass used today is the same as 308. Of course with design differences compared to modern cartridges. However after having been loading for over 40 years I can tell you that within reasonable acceptance of over manual specifications, which everyone here has done at some point I am certain, a significant improvement in velocity over the stated manual maps is achievable. Definitely if you provide a correct throat and spend right to take advantage of modern bullet technology. The thirty-ought-six significantly exceeds the 308. Of course I guess that depends on your definition of significant. LOL. The 30/06 as every other larger case / caliber exceeds with heavier bullets and longer barrels. of course some of those big guys are significantly larger cased / caliber by the way. I just throw my hat in the ring that saying common Sense rules to a given point. Modern design technology has made significance benefits to better case design. And let's just be honest guys who doesn't like the 35 whelen. Mid bore kind of heavy bullet modern velocity makes big holes in big things! LOL. As for myself I've got to be honest I'm really looking that building a Sherman short!!!!

 

[Lycanit]

oh I completely forgot to tell you yes the 308 was reduced because they found that standard pressures caused the m60 to overrun faster than the design intent of approximately 600 to 650 rounds per minute.

 

[J E Custom]

I see we are still comparing the 30/06 to other cartridges. we have debated all of the cartridges that are close to it, some are faster, some are not. Some are high pressure and some are not. If they are not exactly the same powder volume, pressure, they are not realy in the same class and is not a good comparison. The only cartridge that would be close would be the 30/06 AI and even it is not the same. the only cartridge that is truly the same as the 30/06, is the 30/06.

Every cartridge has it's place and it's strong points and weak points. Most people like a cartridge for many reasons and mainly because it fills their needs. There will always be a faster, better designed, higher pressure and generally one with a catchy name but they won't be the same and won't fill the same needs.

It is nice that we have the liberty to own most anything we wan't and can chose the cartridge that best fills our needs and uses. Many country's are limited to one or two cartridges and cant chose the best for the job. Be happy that we can debate, discuss and buy what we want or can afford. but there is no better cartridge than the one we want and need, be it the 30/06 or something else. There is no bad cartridge, just one that doesn't fill your needs.

Just My Opinion for what it's worth.

J E CUSTOM

 

[greenejc]

Thanks - I'll give that a shot. I'm just getting my loading room set up now, after a fifteen year hiatus from handloading. I've been shooting factory loads for all these years, but since I retired, I now have the time to do my own loading like I did years ago. I've been looking forward to this for quite a while ……….

I started reloading when I was 16 with a kit from Lee. I've been reloading ever since, with a short hiatus while I was stationed in Germany, of 4 years. I've been reloading for about 50 years. Its the cheapest way to feed all the big boy toys I own and like to play with. My older brother has been reloading just as long.

 

[greenejc]

oh I completely forgot to tell you yes the 308 was reduced because they found that standard pressures caused the m60 to overrun faster than the design intent of approximately 600 to 650 rounds per minute.

Sounds right. I believe they were experimenting with it at that time, modifying the MG43's feed and quick-change barrel configuration. Lots of people didn't like the PIG, but I thought it worked just fine. I used it a lot.

 

[just country]

morning, nnnnoooo arneson u listen to persons who know
exactly what the person saying from much experience.
my father used to say open mouths catch flies and
waste intelligent persons air. listen u might learn
instead of wasting peoples air. justme gbot tum

 

[MudRunner2005]

oh I completely forgot to tell you yes the 308 was reduced because they found that standard pressures caused the m60 to overrun faster than the design intent of approximately 600 to 650 rounds per minute.

Actually, the first M60's had an adjustable gas block. The top brass found the adjustable gas piston system allowed it to run super fast opened all the way up, causing serious overgassing, overheating, barrel burning, carbon buildup, and malfunction issues. Soldiers testing them were opening up the gas and getting serious RPM's, and melting down barrels and causing other issues. They backed down the gas port diameter, and made it a non-adjustable self-regulating piston setup for that reason. Had nothing to do with the ammo. I used to work around a Colt M60 at the machine-gun range, the Master Sgt. (who has toted one in battle) that maintained it, taught me all about it.

 

[Lycanit]

Actually, the first M60's had an adjustable gas block. The top brass found the adjustable gas piston system allowed it to run super fast opened all the way up, causing serious overgassing, overheating, barrel burning, carbon buildup, and malfunction issues. Soldiers testing them were opening up the gas and getting serious RPM's, and melting down barrels and causing other issues. They backed down the gas port diameter, and made it a non-adjustable self-regulating piston setup for that reason. Had nothing to do with the ammo. I used to work around a Colt M60 at the machine-gun range, the Master Sgt. (who has toted one in battle) that maintained it, taught me all about it.

That is absolutely true... I merely tried to give the abbreviated version of it. The ammo had to be detune though for the fix system. So yes you are correct. But to idiot-proof it. Or should I say Marine prove it. LOL. It was necessary to reduce the pressure the military ammo loaded to A reduced pressure. Or is my age showing.?
Once you remove the adjustability of a adjustable gas block. There are a few things that you can do to adjust the dual time and pressure curve besides bullet weight and load of powder. Of course the powder itself as in burn rate and volume also powder weight. Just like trail boss and some of the other guys. Same weight will give you a different pressure curve.like I've said before I don't know everything and I'm not giving my opinion just what I've read. I really do try to give factual information. And not opinion. If I give an opinion it will be in private through a private message. If I put something in public it is almost certainly something that is accepted as a general fact. I'm certain we all know that facts are sometimes written by those that speak the loudest and not the most accurate.

 

[Hookdown]

Here is an interesting perspective......and a pretty good read to the CM.

http://americanshootingjournal.com/260-remington-vs-6-5-creedmoor/

Obviously a very dated article. So much wrong and obsolete with it. For instance, 6.5 CM Lapua brass has been available for quite some time.