Squared and Trued 700 VS Blueprinted

[Susquatch]

So in a nut shell "blueprinting" is very similar to "match grade", they are subjective terms and it's best to ask the person selling the service what they actually do and what the specs actually are?

You nailed it! The term means whatever the character using the term meant by it. You gotta ask.

 

[adam32]

I once gave a speech at a conference where the speaker before me was the VP of engineering at Pratt & Whitney. He compared automotive engineering to aerospace and talked about how lousy car engines are because they breakdown so frequently while his engines don't. He made one huge mistake - he spoke before me...... I simply pointed out that car engines cost a few hundred bucks and his cost many million. The auto industry COULD make engines every bit as reliable as the aerospace industry, but nobody could afford them.

And now...at least in the General Aviation world...the automotive industry is leaps and bounds ahead of Aviation...airplane tech is stuck in the 60-70's because the FAA makes it nearly impossible to approve anything.

What type of car still has mechanical fuel injection? Points?

A Samsung smart phone has more tech in it then most airplane cockpits.

Oh and as far as blueprinting actions...just buy a Savage, they don't need any work done to them...

 

[bigngreen]

You have to realize there is not a square or straight surface in a Rem action to reference! Then look at tooling, put those bushings and rods on surface plate and you'll realize tooling to the tenth does not cost a couple hundy. Look at a reamed action with inspection gauging and you'll find your reaming isn't really doing what you think and it's forcing you follow with oversized parts for no gain in the end.
If you find the the average center line through the action where the bolt will sit in the middle when the there is pressure on the bolt to that is about the simplest way to get the most for the least.
Then put a bolt on an inspection plate, there are few that are straight, many custom action bolts have curve, nothing PTG makes is straight! Once again you have to average it out and find that center.
No Remington is worth going bonkers on and reaming, bushing bolts or putting more than $250-300 into it, the most gain is to simply square up the contact surfaces and bushing the firing pin.

 

[adam32]

nothing PTG makes is straight!

INCLUDING their reamers!!!

 

[Susquatch]

You have to realize there is not a square or straight surface in a Rem action to reference! Then look at tooling, put those bushings and rods on surface plate and you'll realize tooling to the tenth does not cost a couple hundy. Look at a reamed action with inspection gauging and you'll find your reaming isn't really doing what you think and it's forcing you follow with oversized parts for no gain in the end.
If you find the the average center line through the action where the bolt will sit in the middle when the there is pressure on the bolt to that is about the simplest way to get the most for the least.
Then put a bolt on an inspection plate, there are few that are straight, many custom action bolts have curve, nothing PTG makes is straight! Once again you have to average it out and find that center.
No Remington is worth going bonkers on and reaming, bushing bolts or putting more than $250-300 into it, the most gain is to simply square up the contact surfaces and bushing the firing pin.

Oh my...... Here we go!

Actually I agree with you for the most part.

1. Finding the average centerline is the best start.
2. Squaring the contact surfaces gets you the most bang.
3. Machining oversize? If I cannot clean up the threads without doing that, I usually recommend a custom action.
4. There is a financial break-even where it makes no sense anymore. That's why they sell boat loads of custom actions.

However, we will have to agree to disagree on some of the others

1. Most of the PTG stuff I have received is pretty darn good - WAAYY better than OEM. I know others have had problems and many people are getting turned off. I guess the mileage varies...
2. Good bang for the buck bushing the firing pin? Never made a lick of difference for me.

It's an age old argument that goes nowhere. I've had very good luck doing what I do and the results speak for themselves. But it's also pretty darn easy to just buy a custom action and be done with all of it.

 

[bdlesh]

So I saw where PTG sells a " blueprinted" 700 action for $475 give or take. Are they good enough for a hunting rifle as is? Or would it be better to have a gunsmith do the blueprinting? I also saw on Douglas barrel co. Website they would true your action and install their topline barrels for $500 on you action. That doesn't sound like a bad deal to me....but what do I know

 

[Edd]

https://www.longriflesinc.com/colle...services-remington-m700-receiver-blueprinting

 

[bigngreen]

Along with defining what blueprinting means we also need to define the correct tooling, I've used most methods out there and for TRUE truing or squaring you start with a lathe or mill then you look at how the action is held and finally how the functional center is found.

 

[Susquatch]

So I saw where PTG sells a " blueprinted" 700 action for $475 give or take. Are they good enough for a hunting rifle as is? Or would it be better to have a gunsmith do the blueprinting? I also saw on Douglas barrel co. Website they would true your action and install their topline barrels for $500 on you action. That doesn't sound like a bad deal to me....but what do I know

Douglas makes decent barrels, way better than OEM, but in my humble opinion they are still far from the best out there. You get what you pay for.

I think the PTG trued actions are probably a pretty good deal but I've never purchased one so I really don't know for sure. I would expect that they would at minimum make sure that everything works properly vs factory. The last time I was at a gun shop, 6 out of 6 brand new 700s had very poor bolt timing and could never properly extract a tight cartridge without beating on them. Remington's quality control has never been awesome but ever since their brush with bankruptcy, it's been downright horrible. I would fully expect PTG to filter this all out for you. If not, I bet they would accept a return.

One thing is for sure. Buying a trued action by any of the folks you mentioned is almost guaranteed to result in a better hunting rifle than buying one off the shelf.

If you are not hurting for cash, consider saving up for (or just splurging) on a custom action at double the money instead. At double (or a bit more) the money you'll get 5x the value today and many multiples of that in the future because custom actions don't depreciate over time like factory actions do.

 

[ar10ar15man]

lol just one mans opinion.
the blue print is of a MASS PRODUCED PRODUCTION item, how does following that print make it a match anything ?...just an in spec production item.

for the record when the navy/SEALS wanted more than a production receiver for their mk13 sniper rifle they went to stiller. stiller gave them what they wanted, a TAC 300 with LOOSER tolerances. so less than a full on match action. why / CAUSE AS WAS POINTED OUT, they have to work in the real world, not just benches,

You nailed it! The term means whatever the character using the term meant by it. You gotta ask.

 

[Susquatch]

lol just one mans opinion.
the blue print is of a MASS PRODUCED PRODUCTION item, how does following that print make it a match anything ?...just an in spec production item.

for the record when the navy/SEALS wanted more than a production receiver for their mk13 sniper rifle they went to stiller. stiller gave them what they wanted, a TAC 300 with LOOSER tolerances. so less than a full on match action. why / CAUSE AS WAS POINTED OUT, they have to work in the real world, not just benches,

To be honest, I'm not really sure if you are agreeing with me, disagreeing with me, or just making another point.

Although I am virtually certain that nobody actually has a Remington blueprint, I do agree totally with the thrust of your comments.

 

[Edd]

The blueprint we speak of is readily available.

Can you post a copy of one or a link to one?

 

[bdlesh]

Douglas makes decent barrels, way better than OEM, but in my humble opinion they are still far from the best out there. You get what you pay for.

I think the PTG trued actions are probably a pretty good deal but I've never purchased one so I really don't know for sure. I would expect that they would at minimum make sure that everything works properly vs factory. The last time I was at a gun shop, 6 out of 6 brand new 700s had very poor bolt timing and could never properly extract a tight cartridge without beating on them. Remington's quality control has never been awesome but ever since their brush with bankruptcy, it's been downright horrible. I would fully expect PTG to filter this all out for you. If not, I bet they would accept a return.

One thing is for sure. Buying a trued action by any of the folks you mentioned is almost guaranteed to result in a better hunting rifle than buying one off the shelf.

If you are not hurting for cash, consider saving up for (or just splurging) on a custom action at double the money instead. At double (or a bit more) the money you'll get 5x the value today and many multiples of that in the future because custom actions don't depreciate over time like factory actions do.

Thanks Susquatch for the info. I am not looking for the top of the line this time (as of now. I have a way of going off the deep end and impulse buy parts). This will be my first bolt action build and wanting to cut my teeth on this one. If it doesn't shoot well, I can take it to a professional to fix my mistakes. I am not known for doing things the easy way, but I have learned to ask questions and take advise.
I didn't think Douglas was a top tier manufacturer since no one ever mentions them. I know they have been around a long time.....but so has Mcdonalds

 

[Susquatch]

Thanks Susquatch for the info. I am not looking for the top of the line this time (as of now. I have a way of going off the deep end and impulse buy parts). This will be my first bolt action build and wanting to cut my teeth on this one. If it doesn't shoot well, I can take it to a professional to fix my mistakes. I am not known for doing things the easy way, but I have learned to ask questions and take advise.
I didn't think Douglas was a top tier manufacturer since no one ever mentions them. I know they have been around a long time.....but so has Mcdonalds

Sounds to me like you are way ahead of the game compared to most.....

But be forewarned that getting a pro to fix your mistakes might not be as easy as it sounds. It all depends on what your mistakes are.