My 6,5 mm powerhouse, the 6,5 x 63 Messner Mag.

[sable tireur]

Just a little image management through an editing program. Glad you like it.

 

[cynicrit]

Cool! Relatively light recoil also. That makes rehearsal a lot easier

 

[henrystraker]

Are those monumental copper bullets designed as a hunting bullet ie do they expand reasonably?

What barrel life would you expect from this build to shoot game within 400m?

 

[Varberger757]

Are those monumental copper bullets designed as a hunting bullet ie do they expand reasonably?

What barrel life would you expect from this build to shoot game within 400m?

Yes, Mr. Messner designed the monumental projectiles as hunting bullets with high BC for hunts between 0 - 600 meters. I'm assuming that the bullet is expanding reasonably, but I haven't seen pictures of fired bullets in gelatin or game until now. They are working following the same principle as Barnes or Hornady GMX. Requirement is however sufficient velocity, which the 6,5 x 63 MM or similar cartridges are generating. Personally I wouldn't like to exceed hunting ranges to more than 300 - 350 meters, but that's an European thing. If you don't shoot many rounds in a short time and give the barrel time to cool down 1200 - 1500 rounds seem to be realistic.

 

[HARPERC]

[QUOTE="Varberger757, post: 1604320, member: 66992"......]Over a long time I have been quite critical of the caliber 6,5 mm regarding hunting of larger / large game, because I had been convinced that most of the available cartridges were marginal concerning terminal energy.....I'm using a monumental copper bullet of 137gr / BC 0,68.........[/QUOTE]

The 6.5's have see-sawed around for awhile. Cheap rifles, mediocre performance, etc. So much demand finally is matching good bullets, to good cartridges, in good rifles.

The mono-metals I think make a good match. Steve from Hammer is working out a 165 ish bullet for me. Current rifle is just a wild hare project, but I haven't given up on a 6.5 single shot.

 

[Varberger757]

[QUOTE="Varberger757, post: 1604320, member: 66992"......]Over a long time I have been quite critical of the caliber 6,5 mm regarding hunting of larger / large game, because I had been convinced that most of the available cartridges were marginal concerning terminal energy.....I'm using a monumental copper bullet of 137gr / BC 0,68.........

The 6.5's have see-sawed around for awhile. Cheap rifles, mediocre performance, etc. So much demand finally is matching good bullets, to good cartridges, in good rifles.

The mono-metals I think make a good match. Steve from Hammer is working out a 165 ish bullet for me. Current rifle is just a wild hare project, but I haven't given up on a 6.5 single shot.[/QUOTE]
The 6,5 x 63 MM is also available as rimmed version with exactly identical performance. Perfectly suited for single shots.

 

[264WM]

Over a long time I have been quite critical of the caliber 6,5 mm regarding hunting of larger / large game, because I had been convinced that most of the available cartridges were marginal concerning terminal energy. Very accurate, but that was it for me. Things changed dramatically when I learned about the 6,5 x 63 Messner Mag. Invented by Joseph Messner from Alsace / France this cartridge met all the requirements I demanded. (Ultra) flat trajectory, superb accuracy, relatively light on the shoulder (corresponds approx. to the recoil of a 280 Rem / 7 x 64) and lots of terminal energy. I ordered a rifle from Mr. Messner himself, an Austrian made Voere LBW Luxus. Hand - lapped LW SS - barrel of 63 cm / 25' length and with a special "throat" corresponding to the 6,5 x 65 RWS for more durability. I'm using a monumental copper bullet of 137gr / BC 0,68, which also was invented by Mr. Messner himself. COAL 85 mm, 77gr Swiss RS 80 powder. MV 982 m/s or 3222 fps at 4050 bar / 58740 psi. At 300 m the bullet is still travelling with 852 m/s - 2795 fps and delivering a striking 3216 Joules of energy. Following some pictures of the rifle, cartridges and the target of the first (!) three fired rounds / 100 m right after load development. Mountain hunting in a new dimension.

264 WM does all that and more.

 

[theosmithjr]

Over a long time I have been quite critical of the caliber 6,5 mm regarding hunting of larger / large game, because I had been convinced that most of the available cartridges were marginal concerning terminal energy. Very accurate, but that was it for me. Things changed dramatically when I learned about the 6,5 x 63 Messner Mag. Invented by Joseph Messner from Alsace / France this cartridge met all the requirements I demanded. (Ultra) flat trajectory, superb accuracy, relatively light on the shoulder (corresponds approx. to the recoil of a 280 Rem / 7 x 64) and lots of terminal energy. I ordered a rifle from Mr. Messner himself, an Austrian made Voere LBW Luxus. Hand - lapped LW SS - barrel of 63 cm / 25' length and with a special "throat" corresponding to the 6,5 x 65 RWS for more durability. I'm using a monumental copper bullet of 137gr / BC 0,68, which also was invented by Mr. Messner himself. COAL 85 mm, 77gr Swiss RS 80 powder. MV 982 m/s or 3222 fps at 4050 bar / 58740 psi. At 300 m the bullet is still travelling with 852 m/s - 2795 fps and delivering a striking 3216 Joules of energy. Following some pictures of the rifle, cartridges and the target of the first (!) three fired rounds / 100 m right after load development. Mountain hunting in a new dimension.

Nice! Very, very Nice! Now ifn I could get all the dirt offa my tounge from drooling over it. Thanks for sharing the pics and specs. Theosmithjr

 

[Varberger757]

264 WM does all that and more.

The 264 WM was a good one at its time, and you may use the cartridge so often and long as you wish. No mistake with it, but the 264 WM surely doesn't do more than the 6,5 x 63 MM does, and it's also limited by its old belted case and outdated geometry.

 

[264WM]

It is evident you have not used the 264wm. 160gr Woodleigh PPSN at 3269 fps way more energy than what you are using.

 

[65WSM]

I have a history since the 70s handloading the .264 Win Mag, the 6.5X54 Mannlicher-Schonauer, 6.5-284, 6.5-06 Ackley and of course the 6.5 WSM. The Swiss Nitrochem powder has been imported by Alliant and is very accurate and much easier to handload than the VhitaVuori N-570 (one tenth grain kernels). Alliant was so impressed with the Swiss powder's performance, they hired the Chemist to make some powders at the St Marks Plant in Florida. I am loading 2000MR today in my rodent wildcat .224 Nisqually. My point is that European powders had done a lot for the 6.5 overbore cartridges. I would have built a 6.5-68 with RWS brass if the powders were available we have now.

 

[Locknload]

I ran across a fellow from Sweden in a local gun store, he was here on assignment from his Air Force to Elgin AFB the US Air Force R & D center. He started telling me about his 6.5s so I let him go on, he was pretty proud of their 6.5-55 so I asked how many rifles he had, and what models, he kinda looked shocked that I even knew the round and the guns made for it. I have been fooling with the Swedes since 61. The Swedes and Finns really like the 6.5s for hunting moose.

Sad that the entire shooting world thinks American hunters are either stupid or ignorant as exhibited for all to see by the actions of SAMMI regards European cartridges.
Ed

 

[Joe Hooker]

Ok guys, I want to apologize for going off subject of this thread but; how do start a new thread/conversation?

 

[264WM]

I have also loaded the 264WM since the early 70's. Still loading for it with a new Shilen 30 inch barrel 1 in 8 twist. 85gr bullets at 3829fps is my varmint load using H4830. The 160 gr bullet I have been playing with the obsolete H570. If I ever wanted to switch it would be to the 6.5x300 Weatherby which is the hottest 6.5.