Reticle/turret leveling?

[gohring3006]

Who thinks they have the best method and why?
I will set my gun in a vise, use proven levels from a time they were made in the US. I get everything level and then confirm with shot data. I always have to tweak the scope after all that time in the vise.
So lately I have been turning to a low power and "eye balling" the crosshairs dissecting the rear of the bolt thru the center.
The funny thing is, I haven't had to tweak two scopes after going this.

 

[Hondo64d]

A lot of it may be how you are verifying level when you are shooting. I always take great care to get my vertical crosshair aligned with the bore line. I used to think I was holding my rifles level until I started using an MPA chassis which has a built in level. Once I started using that, my windage creeping away from my vertical crosshair with elevation adjustments went away.

The lesson in this: use a scope level.

As a side note, the built in level in the MPA chassis and a bipod make leveling a scope super easy. Hang a plumb line. Make sure the bubble on the MPA chassis is centered. Align crosshairs with plumb line. Tighten rings. Done.

John

 

[gohring3006]

I have a adjustable butt stock on one of my rifles. So I always set it up to where the rifle is level and tucked in my shoulder correctly. I do use anticant scope levels, but I have found my hit percentage really doesn't change much if I pay attention to the level or not at 1000 yards and closer.
I will also add, once the reticle is level it may not appear to be.

 

[idahoorion]

Hi Bill, in mounting that nightforce I got from you, I did the following in order.

1. used a deck of index cards between the turret housing and the rail to mount the scope to the rifle.

2. verified visually that the mounting would work for me with eye relief and that the rifle did not seem to have to be twisted to visually line up with a known plumb window casing at 50 yards in shooting positions tighten rings to spec.

3. putting the scope level on, and a bipod, I then aligned the vertical crosshair with the window casing. and adjusted and tightened the scope level to match. be anal about this.

4. got on paper and sighted in to 100 yards.

5. hung a tall target, 40" with a 1/2" dot as the bottom aim point used a 4ft level to hang it. (I use cardboard with a box seam as the vertical....with the aim point in the center close to the bottom This needs to be done at a verified 100yards...

6. shot 2 rounds at 100 yard zero then 1 rd at 10moa, 20 moa and 30 moa and then 1 round back down to verified return to each moa setting and zero.

7. then I used the reticle to verify that the marks on the reticle matched the shots. than walked out and saw if the shots match the small marks I premeasured (to know if the turrets were correct

walk out and verify the scope tracks straight up if not you have to figure out if you need to change the level or it's a scope tracking problem

if you have to fight with the rifle (force it to be level) you need to adjust to fit your natural point of aim

now I know the scope and scope level are in bed together and the turret adjustments and reticle are speaking the same language as well.

8. walked over to the 500 yard range and shot with hold over and then turret adjustment double checking the level each time.

9. I am ready to blast at all ranges and as long as I range the target and put in the data correctly...and check the level.....now I can't blame the gun only the driver.

best Idahoorion

 

[gohring3006]

Hi Bill, in mounting that nightforce I got from you, I did the following in order.

1. used a deck of index cards between the turret housing and the rail to mount the scope to the rifle.

2. verified visually that the mounting would work for me with eye relief and that the rifle did not seem to have to be twisted to visually line up with a known plumb window casing at 50 yards in shooting positions tighten rings to spec.

3. putting the scope level on, and a bipod, I then aligned the vertical crosshair with the window casing. and adjusted and tightened the scope level to match. be anal about this.

4. got on paper and sighted in to 100 yards.

5. hung a tall target, 40" with a 1/2" dot as the bottom aim point used a 4ft level to hang it. (I use cardboard with a box seam as the vertical....with the aim point in the center close to the bottom This needs to be done at a verified 100yards...

6. shot 2 rounds at 100 yard zero then 1 rd at 10moa, 20 moa and 30 moa and then 1 round back down to verified return to each moa setting and zero.

7. then I used the reticle to verify that the marks on the reticle matched the shots. than walked out and saw if the shots match the small marks I premeasured (to know if the turrets were correct

walk out and verify the scope tracks straight up if not you have to figure out if you need to change the level or it's a scope tracking problem

if you have to fight with the rifle (force it to be level) you need to adjust to fit your natural point of aim

now I know the scope and scope level are in bed together and the turret adjustments and reticle are speaking the same language as well.

8. walked over to the 500 yard range and shot with hold over and then turret adjustment double checking the level each time.

9. I am ready to blast at all ranges and as long as I range the target and put in the data correctly...and check the level.....now I can't blame the gun only the driver.

best Idahoorion

Good info thanks!
Man, I honestly believe that Nightforce is the best all around hunting scope I have had!!

 

[Just cut]

I also use playing cards as mentioned above, this keeps the scope square with the action and it can't roll when torquing the screws. I mount all my scopes this way and I shoot out to 1 mile with good results.

 

[Buck Buster]

Who thinks they have the best method and why?
I will set my gun in a vise, use proven levels from a time they were made in the US. I get everything level and then confirm with shot data. I always have to tweak the scope after all that time in the vise.
So lately I have been turning to a low power and "eye balling" the crosshairs dissecting the rear of the bolt thru the center.
The funny thing is, I haven't had to tweak two scopes after going this.

I also level the gun in a vise, then install scope and level it. This is the way my local gun smith does it.

 

[Buck Buster]

I have a adjustable butt stock on one of my rifles. So I always set it up to where the rifle is level and tucked in my shoulder correctly. I do use scope levels, but I have found my hit percentage really doesn't change much if I pay attention to the level or not at 1000 yards and closer.
I will also add, once the reticle is level it may not appear to be.

A lot of people hold a gun different and the X hair will not look the same (level) to everyone. I have also tried the card trick, but I usually always draw the joker and he will play a trick on me. All joking aside, I have seen some things in a house that are not that square, things may have settled or they may not have been square when built. Using a building in a distance or a window casing. They should actually be checked first or you are just taking it for granted that they are plumb. I like the level best, the gun smith said that using the level will get things as straight as can be expected. He said he would trust a level before he would trust his ability to detect when things are level or plumb using a playing card, he said the more things that you have to assume are plum or level is not good. With a level across the top of your scope base when the gun is in a vise is about as accurate as it can get. The bases are fastened to the action and your scope is fastened to the bases, the scope bases are your building foundation and leveling them is leveling your action also since the bases are screwed fast to the holes that are supposed to be drilled squared on the action from the factory. If they aren't right you have bigger problems. All you should have to do is level your gun with the bases attached then fasten your scope and put a small level across the scope cap and level your scope. Make sure the scope doesn't move when tightening the scope rings. Your done!! Good job!!

 

[Greyfox]

-the first measurement of the entire scope mounting leveling process is to confirm that the vertical crosshair is plumb and bisects the bore of the rifle. At this point I like to insure the action rails, barrel, scope mounts, and stock/chassis are in basic alignment. This is an excellent device to confirm this measurement.
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...ers/vertical-reticle-instrument-prod6097.aspx
-using the above device with levels on the action rail and scope turret(ie. Wheeler...but confirm that the bubbles are accurate!), I will confirm that all three bubbles are in alignment.
-I will do a tall test at 100 yards on a plumbed vertical line, 3-4' target to confirm alignment of 3 shot groups, taken at 10 MOA intervals to the furthest elevation setting planned for the rifle. I will confirm POI is plumb and if the scope is new, confirm actual click values as well. I have rarely, if ever had to readjust the scope during this test if the first 2 steps were performed properly and a quality scope was mounted.

 

[Buck Buster]

-the first measurement of the entire scope mounting leveling process is to confirm that the vertical crosshair is plumb and bisects the bore of the rifle. At this point I like to insure the action rails, barrel, scope mounts, and stock/chassis are in basic alignment. This is an excellent device to confirm this measurement.
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...ers/vertical-reticle-instrument-prod6097.aspx
-using the above device with levels on the action rail and scope turret(ie. Wheeler...but confirm that the bubbles are accurate!), I will confirm that all three bubbles are in alignment.
-I will do a tall test at 100 yards on a plumbed vertical line, 3-4' target to confirm alignment of 3 shot groups, taken at 10 MOA intervals to the furthest elevation setting planned for the rifle. I will confirm POI is plumb and if the scope is new, confirm actual click values as well. I have rarely, if ever had to readjust the scope during this test if the first 2 steps were performed properly and a quality scope was mounted.

It must be a popular item I see it is out of stock.

 

[Greyfox]

It must be a popular item I see it is out of stock.

I have used this Vertical Leveler for several years. It's surprising how many times, when leveling only on the action rails and the scope turret, how many scopes are not centered over the bore. This can be due to non-centered scope bases(drilled mount holes), a stock bedding or chassis that's not level, or a barrel that not trued with the action. It's probably the reason that MPA recently changed from a fixed level on their Chassis to an adjustable level. It's also useful with actions that do not provide a leveling point on the action...ie rimfires and small ejection port rifles.

 

[Buck Buster]

I have used this Vertical Leveler for several years. It's surprising how many times, when leveling only on the action rails and the scope turret, how many scopes are not centered over the bore. This can be due to non-centered scope bases(drilled mount holes), a stock bedding or chassis that's not level, or a barrel that not trued with the action. It's probably the reason that MPA recently changed from a fixed level on their Chassis to an adjustable level. It's also useful with actions that do not provide a leveling point on the action...ie rimfires and small ejection port rifles.

How is this running doggy so to speak, corrected? Re-drill holes for the bases?

 

[Blkz06]

I use a CTK level on my picatinny rails, level the gun, lock it down in my bench vise then use a fluorescent string line out about 40 yards to verify plumb on the reticles. Shoot out to 1000 yards and it works beautifully, at least for me.

 

[WyoHunter1]

I just mounted a scope on a new browning. My first issue is that not all actions are flat enough to mount a level on top. Using the action is not decisive because you can get a big variance on where exactly and how you mount the level.
So I tried to use the top of the rear scope ring with a level across them. I thought all was good until I checked the front scope ring. They did not align up..

I don't know what the answer is, but if all the manufactures of actions had to put a level surface on top to aid in scope mounting (which would also help in truing the action to a stock). That would be ideal. JMO