You have but one rifle....a 270 AM

Resized a second batch or 7mm RUM to 270 AM. I've read to stop short of resizing the the full lenght of the neck. Which I've done, can anyone tell me the reason for this??
Also, anyone loading for this round I would be interested in knowing your COL with the 169.5 and 195 Wildcats and do you know what you have for a throat in your rifle??
 
bearless:

You stop just short of doing the entire neck so that the small portion left gives you a slight crush fit of the case in the chamber. This makes sure the case is held in place initially during the fire forming process.

I do this with 270 AMs as well as 7mm AMs. I have a pic of the 7mm AM done this way but not the 270 AM, if you need to see it.

My buddy's 270 AM, with the 169.5 Wildcats just at the lands, measured to ogive with Stoney Point gage is 3.219" average. This is with what Kirby considers his standard length throat. This is approximately 3.8870" oal to tip. I measure and set all rounds to ogive and not the tip. Your methods and gages will probably give you a slightly different measurement, but this is close.
 
Tim,

Sorry I'm so tardy.

I gave up on neck turning. It didn't do any good, one way or another.

Just for fun measure the diameter of the two different bullet weights.

Went out today to test my bipod. Temp was 60*. Had to pound the bolt open. The loads were pretty good at less then 30* but apparently too hot for 60*. Shot great though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Dick
What method are you using to get your seating depth. I can't get a seating depth. The barrel has a tapered lead and I can't get consistant measurements. Tried a rod with two clamps, marking the bullet and just trial and error seating til it chambers.
With the clamps I've taken three reading with a 169.5 gr Wildcat and used five different bullets, total of fifteen readings. After each reading with each bullet I removed it, turned it and measured again. Got a spread of .143. Thats 3.692 to 3.549.
Plus I found out today that Richard is no londer going to offer his 195 gr bullets that I had ordered because of problems with his components. Availabiliy of other bullets I have no idea. His words "I have a new style bullet out with a aluminum tip that will replace these in a month.These will be built on a heavier jacket and will be superior in
every shape and form with a huge increase in bc.I was planning on dropping
the "old style" anyways,this just hurried it up a bit.The only downfall will
be a higher cost per bullet."
Phil
 
[ QUOTE ]
These will be built on a heavier jacket and will be superior in every shape and form with a huge increase in bc.

[/ QUOTE ]

The email I got referred to them as "scary". I've seen a picture and they are exactly that.
 
bearless:

I use the Stoney Point gage for testing for seating depth. I also use a wooden dowel down the muzzle. I seat the case in the chamber as consistently as possible each time. I use the dowel and the rod in the gage at the same time and use both hands with as delicate a touch as possible and have the bullet captured by the rod in the gage and the dowel as I touch the lands. I do this at least 5 times and take the average. With care and practice you can get pretty consistent with it. Also, the gun is held in a gun vise so the only thing I'm doing is manipulating the rod and dowel and I'm not having to hold the gun plus do the measurements.

You can't jam the bullet with any force into the lands and expect to get accurate measurements. It has be be done with feel and finesse and as close to the same each time as is humanly possible.

Also note that you can't tighten the set screw on the rod of the gage with too much force or you will create an indentation on the sliding rod. Then future measurements will possibly be affected when you try to tighten the set screw but the point is deflected into the dimple you left the last time when you tightened it too much.

I then keep the bullet that I used with the case and always use the same bullet for future checks to track throat wear etc. The bullet is marked and set aside and kept just for measurements.

[ QUOTE ]
With the clamps I've taken three reading with a 169.5 gr Wildcat and used five different bullets, total of fifteen readings. After each reading with each bullet I removed it, turned it and measured again. Got a spread of .143. Thats 3.692 to 3.549.

[/ QUOTE ]
I just did a new bullet/load measurement and for 5 different tries the variation was .002", which is +-.001", so you can get it down with care, patience and practice. I also mark the case neck and the bullet with a mark so that each time I put the bullet into the case to measure I have the same relation between the bullet, the case and the rod in the gage. I just want to be sure that everything I can control is the same each time I take a measurement.

If you are using the same brand and style bullet, but in different weights, mark the weight on each bullet with a marker. You should also weigh the bullet when testing to make sure the correct bullet is being used. It'd be easy to use the wrong bullet and get an incorrect measurement because the bullets of different weights look the same.
 
Yes, a Stoney Point overall length gage is a wonderful tool. I have one and a wide assortment of modified cases, but not one in 270 AM. I will send a fire formed case out Monday to be modified
What I'm doing should give me the same info. I close the bolt and from the muzzle run a rod to the bolt face then tighten a clamp at the muzzle. Then with very light finger pressure push a bullet into the chamber touching the lands. I then run the rod to the bullet tip and tighten the second clamp at the muzzle. Measuring between the clamps should give COL.
This is fine, I got fairly consistant measurements from three tries with the same bullet. But is this the info I need??
What I did was take five bullets and fifteen measurements hoping to get an average reading that I could use as my seating depth. I don't understand why this isn't working for me.
 
I just picked up the correct tap a long time ago and make my own cases to fit the Stoney Point threads when the need arises.

When you put the loose bullet in and run it up to the lands how do you do it, and how can you do it consistently each time? How do you know that you have precisely and consistently put the bullet right at the lands each time by dropping a loose bullet into the chamber and then pushing it up into the lands? How do you hold it in place precisely and consistently each time at, but not into the lands, to get the clamps set? I never have trusted this method to give consistent results. Remember you are seating a tapered object into a tapered hole, but one that isn't smooth but has sharp lands etc., so precision and repeatability are important. You're not setting a flat surface against a flat surface.

Your current method will give you the COAL with that particular bullet, but only with that particular bullet. Switch bullets and because of tip variations you will not have the same measurements. The measurement to the ogive is much more consistent and repeatable.

I assume you take the COAL you obtain by your method and then set your seating die to give you a loaded round that is the same measurement from the base of the case head to the tip of the bullet. When you set your die for that case and that single bullet you now have that particular round loaded to a given length that hopefully would give you a loaded round with the bullet just at the lands. Load another bullet and measure and you will probably end up with a different COAL because of tip configuration variations.

Even though you got fairly consistent measurements from the three tries with the same bullet that just means that if you seated that bullet in a case that you would have a COAL that would give you a round with "that" bullet loaded to the lands. Take another case and another bullet, seat it with the same die setting and what do you think the result would be? What you want to obtain is the most precise, consistent loaded dimension from the base of the case head to the ogive of the bullet. It is the ogive that is going to contact the lands, not the tip of the bullet. Measure a bunch of bullets for oal with a good micrometer, base of bullet to tip of bullet, and see what you get. Then do the same thing with the proper gages from base to ogive, or the way I do it, by using dual gages set to the ogive contact diameter of the caliber you are using. Then see what your measurements are. All bullets don't tip up the same during the forming process but the ogive dimensions are pretty consistent. I think that you would be better served using the ogive as a measuring point as compared to using the tip which is very inconsistent. This is all just my opinion and methods and all of this nitpicking is meaningless at shorter ranges, but........this is a long range forum and at extended ranges everything is far more critical and important.

Now for something else to play with, set your seating die, using whatever method you use, to a setting that will give you a COAL at the lands. Load up 20 or 30 rounds at this setting. Now, using the right gages, measure from case head to ogive on each loaded round and see what you come up with. Do this and you will see why some reloaders load all rounds long, measure base to ogive, segregate, and then adjust for different length groups and reseat so that all are at the same base to ogive measurement. Not necessary unless you're a little anal, but it can be a fun exercise. If you believe that by increasing or decreasing COAL and thus the distance either into, or away from the lands means a different pressure and thus a different pressure will probably create velocity differences and different velocities will create huge vertical differences at 1000 yards or more and see what you think is important.
 
Dick
Before I go on, I wanna thank you for the time your taking, helping me out with this.
I'm starting the bullet in a case, this is how I'm sliding it into the chamber. I realize the bullets aren't perfect and a COL measurement isn't exact, but it should put me close. Say within .005-.010 of the lands. Then back off from this and I would have a starting point. Now I would have a loaded round I can measue to the ogive.
This rifle has a tapered lead thats .250-.300 best we can measure. Is it possible the bullet diameter varies enough to give me the measurements I'm getting?? If thats the case, would the Stoney Point gage make a difference??
What I'm doing should be working. This should be easy, this is step one when I start a new bullet load combination. This rifle making me feel like a real jerk.
With all my problems, the rifle not shooting to bad. Not as good as I would like it to. Its putting whatever I feed it, including FF into 2-3" at 300 yds.
I wanna ask is the 270 AM your loading for a single shot??
Have some 130gr that I'm using for FF, have no idea what the velocity is, but I swear I can see the plate at 300 move before I feel the gun recoil. Its just there!!
Thanks again
Phil
 
[ QUOTE ]
I realize the bullets aren't perfect and a COL measurement isn't exact, but it should put me close. Say within .005-.010 of the lands. Then back off from this and I would have a starting point.

[/ QUOTE ]
For me at least, the object is to know as exactly as I can, where the bullet just contacts the lands. Given that dimension you can then go either into, or away from, the lands. A measurement within .005"-.010" to me would be at least a couple of different settings and load development stages. If you start at the lands with a VLD you could try that and then try it in .005" increments backing away from the lands to see what shoots the best.

If you don't already have it, I'd suggest buying QuickLOAD. That will let you play some neat "what if" games and even though it's not exact, you can get a pretty good idea what happens and what changes give you what results.

If you're shooting quality bullets, they won't vary in diameter. The Wildcats are spot on and you don't have to worry about diameter changes or ogive changes.

The 270 AM I'm loading for is a single shot, but only because it was built on a Savage action.

All of the AM's get down range very very fast. "This little video of a 7mm AM at 400 yards shows what you are talking about".

Use one bullet for your measurements, measure to the ogive, be consistent and precise and you will get where you need to be.
 
Hey SS7MM What is that tap that you got for the stoney point? I couldnt find one in our shop and was just wanting a short cut so I can order one. Thanks

Jason
 
From the Stoney Point site:

Q: What is the thread size for the OAL Gauge? I am an experienced machinist and would like to modify my own brass. Can you provide the proper drill bit and tap?
A: The thread size is 5/16" x 36. This is a special size drill and tap that we can provide to experienced machinists. Contact us for details.

This is somewhat of an oddball size and you may have to look around to find one. Not every place stocks them. I don't remember where I got mine but I do remember that because of connections I got it for $ 00.00. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
You can order the tap from McMaster-Carr
5/16"-32
Single Taps NEF
Thread Type NEF (National Extra Fine)
Thread Direction Right-Hand Thread
Tap Material High-Speed Steel
Surface Coating/Treatment Uncoated (Bright Finish)
Pitch Diameter Limit H3
Thread Length 1-1/8"
Overall Length 2-23/32"


Hand Taps Taper 4 2521A418 $6.34

Hand Taps Plug 4 2521A428 6.34

Hand Taps Bottoming 4 2521A446 6.34

Spiral Point Taps Plug 2 25705A63 13.05
 
Mike:

[ QUOTE ]
You can order the tap from McMaster-Carr
5/16"-32

[/ QUOTE ]

Note: They are 5/15 x 36. The 36 is the problem when it comes to finding the tap.
 
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