I have been wanting a X-bow for some time now. I am looking at the high end x-bows with the higher speeds. One thing has me perplexed though. Say you have a x-bow that shoots the standard bolt at 350FPS. Then you have a speed bow that throws a arrow at 350FPS. How do the two compare at say 30 yards, 45 yards, 60 yards, 75 yards ect.? I can shoot a bow pretty dang well for as little as I have shot so I wonder why by the x-bow over the regular bows? I don't know why, I have wanted a x-bow for years and years. So what is the advantages and disadvantages of each?
X-bow VS. regular bow?
- Thread starter Sako7STW
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I shot a bow for many years and killed a lot of whitetails with it. Now, I shoot a crossbow because of an injury,,,what is the difference you ask when the speeds are close to the same? #1- My Desert Stryker crossbow shoots an honest 353 ft/p/s with a 100gr Thunderhead Broadhead, not many bows will do that. But here is the difference as far as hunting goes...you pick up a crossbow, flip the safety off, aim and pull the trigger,,,,same as a rifle!!! With a bow you gotta stand up, pull the bow back (without gettin' caught) then shoot....A bow is still and always will be the extreme challenge!!! but a crossbow is still fun and I'm thankful that I am allowed to hunt with it or I'd not be in the woods as early each year!! I shot a deer 09-24-11 with my crossbow at 42 yds,,,hit it in the left shoulder, went through into the right shoulder and out into the ground....it busted up BOTH shoulders I mean BUSTED the bones,,,,as well as any rifle!!!!amazed me, I've busted a bone or two with my Mathews,,but nothing like this!!!!!
SOUTHPAWSHOOTER10
Well-Known Member
In my opinion x-bows are to noisy, heavy, too slow to reload, and to guys like me who constantly struggle to keep a flinch under control do not like to shoot them due to nasty trigger pulls and strange recoil sensation. However having said that i know i stepped on some toes, and if someone wants one or needs one to stay in the hunt i'll sure not turn up my nose at 'em. But for me it's either a recurve or compound, or nothing at all.
Sako7STW,
I would have loved to continue to shoot my compound. Could get off second shot without getting caught too. But physical damage to my frame work over the years has nullified that and now I'm 'still in the hunt' with my third X-bow.
Yes the X-bow is heavier than a 4.2 pound compound about the same as scoped rifle...mine weighs in at 8.7 loaded which is light. They are a pain in the *** to carry with a climber on your back especially if your back in 3/4+ of mile even with a sling. I don't know about movement bringing up a X-bow vs. shooting a compound from a sitting position as I did alot of....movement is movement to deer.
But you will smash shoulder bones easily if you have a fast enough one...expendables are king in X-bow unless your shooting very long distance. I keep mine at 50 and under...just me. Most are scoped with dots/hashes/circles/point etc. at about 1 to 4 power range. I know a guys using 3x9's some states limit power ranges.
If you really want to 'try one' I recommend getting one used like off Craigslist.org You'll pay whole lot less. There are safety things to know about X-bows. Even cocking of the string is numero uno use an aid. I shoot a Parker Tornado new in 2010. If you get a X-bow get one over 300fps. Barnett makes one I think its called a Jackal outfit for @ $300 it runs about 320fps. Just try a few BEFORE you buy. Find a bow shop that has X-bows in stock. They'll usually let you shoot 'em before you buy at least my guy lets me. By the way he has 3 brand new Ten-Points sitting on the shelf...'cause the guys try it then try a Parker..they buy the Parker. Lifetime guarantee too.
p.s. Wed night I did get the second shot off without getting caught...on the second deer... a climber buys you unknown stands to these suburban Baltimore whitetails.
I would have loved to continue to shoot my compound. Could get off second shot without getting caught too. But physical damage to my frame work over the years has nullified that and now I'm 'still in the hunt' with my third X-bow.
Yes the X-bow is heavier than a 4.2 pound compound about the same as scoped rifle...mine weighs in at 8.7 loaded which is light. They are a pain in the *** to carry with a climber on your back especially if your back in 3/4+ of mile even with a sling. I don't know about movement bringing up a X-bow vs. shooting a compound from a sitting position as I did alot of....movement is movement to deer.
But you will smash shoulder bones easily if you have a fast enough one...expendables are king in X-bow unless your shooting very long distance. I keep mine at 50 and under...just me. Most are scoped with dots/hashes/circles/point etc. at about 1 to 4 power range. I know a guys using 3x9's some states limit power ranges.
If you really want to 'try one' I recommend getting one used like off Craigslist.org You'll pay whole lot less. There are safety things to know about X-bows. Even cocking of the string is numero uno use an aid. I shoot a Parker Tornado new in 2010. If you get a X-bow get one over 300fps. Barnett makes one I think its called a Jackal outfit for @ $300 it runs about 320fps. Just try a few BEFORE you buy. Find a bow shop that has X-bows in stock. They'll usually let you shoot 'em before you buy at least my guy lets me. By the way he has 3 brand new Ten-Points sitting on the shelf...'cause the guys try it then try a Parker..they buy the Parker. Lifetime guarantee too.
p.s. Wed night I did get the second shot off without getting caught...on the second deer... a climber buys you unknown stands to these suburban Baltimore whitetails.
smokepoler
Well-Known Member
my hunting buddy had a 160 buck 12 yds in the open & couldn't pull back in a too low treestand. his 8 pt little buddy rat fink and a couple does were on lookout. Crossbow? it'd been all over. I'm still sick. I'll take the CB over a conventional any day. This year, I killed a small 8 at 37 yds with a parker buckbuster 175. complete pass through and dead after walking less than 15 yds. Gotta love it.
jon.henry755
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2010
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- 391
Hi SAKO7STW,
For the record there are very few differences between a crossbow and a regular compound bow regardless of what you may here from others. The main differences are in the fact that when shooting a regular bow you would a much longer draw length, so let's say for example purposes that your draw length is 28". This means that when you release an arrow you would have approximately that number of inches (minus your bows brace height) to develop the 300 + fps of arrow velocity required to hit and penetrate your target.
"Penetration" is a formula based on mass weight x speed, so it's the weight of your arrow and point x the fps you've generated coming off your bow.
On a crossbow, which is nothing more that a bow turned sideways, mounted to a stock and operated off a trigger rather than a string release, you only have approximately 13" of cable travel in which to develop the same or greater velocity as you do on your compound bow at almost 28" of string travel. This means that it would require much more bow poundage to achieve the same or greater arrow velocities in that short of a distance with the crossbow because the bow is much shorter and the string travel is greatly reduced. The mass weight of the arrow is also much lighter, due to the fact that the arrow shaft has been shortened by several inches.
There is no difference in performance between a cheap or medium priced crossbow that shoots an arrow at 350 fps and an expensive one. The expensive ones may have more amenities on them or may be more well built or even have better sight systems, but 350 fps is 350 fps no matter what it comes out of, so the accuracy and performance of a 350 fps projectile remains the same as long as the mass weight remains the same.
The better high performance crossbows that you refer to usually have velocities far exceeding 350 fps and are generally in the range of 400 + fps. This may not sound like much, but every 25 fps of an increase is very significant. In order to achieve any type of useable accuracy at anything over 50 yards you would need a crossbow that shoots minimally 375 fps, but 400 + fps will allow accuracy to at least 100 yards with enough penetration to pass through a large animal.
If you look at the design of the PSE TAC15 / 15i crossbows, they are the only crossbows to shoot a 22.25" arrow. This means that they have a significantly longer cable stroke than any other production made crossbow. Their bow weight is 155 lbs. and the velocity is an average of 405 fps. Since the cable is cranked back into the load position by a cranking mechanism, it requires very little strength or effort to turn the handle to load these units.
This makes it a great shooting crossbow with extreme accuracy, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a great hunting crossbow. Power and accuracy are two important factors, but size and weight are also important for many hunters.
The TAC Series crossbows are a bit long and can be heavy compared to many of the less expensive crossbows on the market. For those looking for light and short, this is not going to be a good match up. For those looking for extreme accuracy at all distances up to and exceeding 100 yards, this is the best xbow available.
There are no crossbows that even come close to covering all the bases in all of these areas. Pick and choose those qualities that are most important to you and then invest on that basis. Today's latest generation of crossbows are making enormous advances in performance and durability with the new technology and the latest new materials and composites available, but the same can be said about today's new generations of compound bows. As we know these materials heavily impact the price to performance ratio.
The biggest difference is that even attempting to shoot a compound bow at targets 100 yards or more is almost unheard of, but with the right crossbow and a good deal of tuning work, it's very doable for the average person with the right crossbow.
Hope this helps with the basics!
Jon Henry
For the record there are very few differences between a crossbow and a regular compound bow regardless of what you may here from others. The main differences are in the fact that when shooting a regular bow you would a much longer draw length, so let's say for example purposes that your draw length is 28". This means that when you release an arrow you would have approximately that number of inches (minus your bows brace height) to develop the 300 + fps of arrow velocity required to hit and penetrate your target.
"Penetration" is a formula based on mass weight x speed, so it's the weight of your arrow and point x the fps you've generated coming off your bow.
On a crossbow, which is nothing more that a bow turned sideways, mounted to a stock and operated off a trigger rather than a string release, you only have approximately 13" of cable travel in which to develop the same or greater velocity as you do on your compound bow at almost 28" of string travel. This means that it would require much more bow poundage to achieve the same or greater arrow velocities in that short of a distance with the crossbow because the bow is much shorter and the string travel is greatly reduced. The mass weight of the arrow is also much lighter, due to the fact that the arrow shaft has been shortened by several inches.
There is no difference in performance between a cheap or medium priced crossbow that shoots an arrow at 350 fps and an expensive one. The expensive ones may have more amenities on them or may be more well built or even have better sight systems, but 350 fps is 350 fps no matter what it comes out of, so the accuracy and performance of a 350 fps projectile remains the same as long as the mass weight remains the same.
The better high performance crossbows that you refer to usually have velocities far exceeding 350 fps and are generally in the range of 400 + fps. This may not sound like much, but every 25 fps of an increase is very significant. In order to achieve any type of useable accuracy at anything over 50 yards you would need a crossbow that shoots minimally 375 fps, but 400 + fps will allow accuracy to at least 100 yards with enough penetration to pass through a large animal.
If you look at the design of the PSE TAC15 / 15i crossbows, they are the only crossbows to shoot a 22.25" arrow. This means that they have a significantly longer cable stroke than any other production made crossbow. Their bow weight is 155 lbs. and the velocity is an average of 405 fps. Since the cable is cranked back into the load position by a cranking mechanism, it requires very little strength or effort to turn the handle to load these units.
This makes it a great shooting crossbow with extreme accuracy, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a great hunting crossbow. Power and accuracy are two important factors, but size and weight are also important for many hunters.
The TAC Series crossbows are a bit long and can be heavy compared to many of the less expensive crossbows on the market. For those looking for light and short, this is not going to be a good match up. For those looking for extreme accuracy at all distances up to and exceeding 100 yards, this is the best xbow available.
There are no crossbows that even come close to covering all the bases in all of these areas. Pick and choose those qualities that are most important to you and then invest on that basis. Today's latest generation of crossbows are making enormous advances in performance and durability with the new technology and the latest new materials and composites available, but the same can be said about today's new generations of compound bows. As we know these materials heavily impact the price to performance ratio.
The biggest difference is that even attempting to shoot a compound bow at targets 100 yards or more is almost unheard of, but with the right crossbow and a good deal of tuning work, it's very doable for the average person with the right crossbow.
Hope this helps with the basics!
Jon Henry
Twolf
Well-Known Member
once you become handi - cap your only choice is a x-bow so now that`s what i use a x-bow , i do wish all states would allow x-bows for at least the handi-cap during all archery seasons , 46 states do allow this .
longbarrelxp
Active Member
I also shoot a crossbow due to handicap. I got a Ravin R10 as a compromise of speed, easy crank cocking, and cost. If you want really small and fast, look at the R26.
I love crossbows, I had three a month ago sold all three and bought the Ten Point Vengent S440 pricey at $2200 but it's all I'll ever need for deer, and moose hopefully. Shoots like a rifle at, 10 yards it's scooting at 420 fps consistently , I'd feel comfy with a 50 yard shot on anything given the opportunity. Try , like me not to get caught up in all the marketing strategies, higher speeds draw weights etc. My bow will drop any land mammal on earth with a good shot. Unfortunately speed sells high end bows, mine's advertised at 440 fps , maybe so but that's ten feet from launch still this baby can shoot , I can hit a rabbit at 50 yards easy maybe 60 the accuracy is there. Check out Ten Points fastest crossbow made Nitro 505Xero close to 5K, but I saw one in person and it was incredible, but not in this lifetime. I chose Ten Point because of the length of time they've been in business, customer service, made in USA, and less than an hour from me. They're very far ahead of most crossbow companies, as most emulate them. These are facts, anyway lots of good brands to choose from.Shoot several if you can, I shot Ravin, Scorpyd and Ten Point all in the same day, Fin , Fur ,Feather Ashland Ohio archery range in basement and they know there stuff, I liked all but the balance and accuracy in my hands of the Ten Point sold me.
Twolf
Well-Known Member
one thing you will notice is off-hand shooting a compound is more accurate than shooting a x-bow off hand for many of us .
its archery period! If you don't have a rest, most will struggle to shoot one as good as the did their compound. What was said about movement is spot on, I could raise my compound straight out smooth and stealthy then anyone who knows how to hunt deer or any other big game at close range understands when you can draw, or bring the bow up, but if your used to a compound like I was, at first they are the clumsiest contraptions on earth, easy to bump a limb and spook deer till you get used to them!
It is no different than once you get used to a crossbow, if you never shot a compound, it would be totally basackwatds! I only practice with either off hand, with the crossbows' I do use any rest I can get in the field, but in real life field conditions we all know that aint always possible! I feel I was much stealthier with a compound, but today with several back neck and shoulder injuries, I'm glad to still use a bow!! I have done this for decades, and to think it aint still archery, and everything to do with archery hunting still applies would be stupid,,, It is still silent up close and you need to know how and when to make it happen or its all over.
If I had a choice, I'd still be toten a Hoyt, for me it was handier, and just as deadly, but I never shot IBO, and 13 years ago the Havoc Tec destroyed more than one double shoulder, and at 540 grains w/ my 70# 30.5" draw, I dont remember ever not picking my arrow up out of the dirt on the other side of the deer!
It is no different than once you get used to a crossbow, if you never shot a compound, it would be totally basackwatds! I only practice with either off hand, with the crossbows' I do use any rest I can get in the field, but in real life field conditions we all know that aint always possible! I feel I was much stealthier with a compound, but today with several back neck and shoulder injuries, I'm glad to still use a bow!! I have done this for decades, and to think it aint still archery, and everything to do with archery hunting still applies would be stupid,,, It is still silent up close and you need to know how and when to make it happen or its all over.
If I had a choice, I'd still be toten a Hoyt, for me it was handier, and just as deadly, but I never shot IBO, and 13 years ago the Havoc Tec destroyed more than one double shoulder, and at 540 grains w/ my 70# 30.5" draw, I dont remember ever not picking my arrow up out of the dirt on the other side of the deer!
Ramblin99
Well-Known Member
I've been shooting crossbows for about 10 years, and most of that time shooting various Scorpyd reverse draw crossbows. I shot vertical bows for 30 years. Why did I switch? Crossbows are just plain fun. I enjoy long distance target shooting, trying to shoot the best 3-shot groups I can shoot. My best 80-yard group is 1-1/4" center to center. The high-end bows like Scorpyd and probably Ravin can perform with that kind of accuracy. I can't shoot my Scorpyd Ventilator 175 Extreme at the same target spot at 50 yards and under because I'll bust the knocks and fletching off my expensive arrows. If you choose to buy one of these $2K bows, you'll be astounded at the accuracy.
With that said, you won't ever shoot a deer at that distance. The deer wouldn't even be standing there when the arrow arrived. My Vent shoots a 435gr total weight arrow at a true (chronographed) 435 feet per second, and that's a 22" arrow. But crossbows are LOUD. The deer jump the string in a serious way. My max range to make a sure, ethical kill on whitetails is 45 yards. Any farther than that and they simply move too much before the arrow arrives. I learned this the hard way shooting at a doe several years ago at 55 yards. She dropped about 8 inches and lurched forward probably a foot before the arrow arrived. And at that time I was shooting the fastest crossbow one could buy.
When hunting, you can shoot a crossbow from essentially any position you like. From shooting houses, ladder stands, climbers, lock-ons and ground blinds. And if the deer shows up on the wrong side, you can also shoot a crossbow left-handed. The bow doesn't care at shorter distances. However, for long-distance target shooting, be aware that crossbows are very particular about how you hold them. If you want to shoot great long distance groups, you need a level on your scope and you have to hold the bow the exact same way, with the exact same pressure, every time. And you need good spine-matched arrows as well.
You don't have to shoot a crossbow just because you get old. That used to be the motivation and how many people ended up shooting crossbows. But I'm seeing a lot of young guys shooting them now....because they are so much fun to shoot. It's not a compromise, or a tool for people that can't shoot a vertical bow anymore. It's just another way to hunt deer....or whatever game you hunt. Go for it and never look back!
With that said, you won't ever shoot a deer at that distance. The deer wouldn't even be standing there when the arrow arrived. My Vent shoots a 435gr total weight arrow at a true (chronographed) 435 feet per second, and that's a 22" arrow. But crossbows are LOUD. The deer jump the string in a serious way. My max range to make a sure, ethical kill on whitetails is 45 yards. Any farther than that and they simply move too much before the arrow arrives. I learned this the hard way shooting at a doe several years ago at 55 yards. She dropped about 8 inches and lurched forward probably a foot before the arrow arrived. And at that time I was shooting the fastest crossbow one could buy.
When hunting, you can shoot a crossbow from essentially any position you like. From shooting houses, ladder stands, climbers, lock-ons and ground blinds. And if the deer shows up on the wrong side, you can also shoot a crossbow left-handed. The bow doesn't care at shorter distances. However, for long-distance target shooting, be aware that crossbows are very particular about how you hold them. If you want to shoot great long distance groups, you need a level on your scope and you have to hold the bow the exact same way, with the exact same pressure, every time. And you need good spine-matched arrows as well.
You don't have to shoot a crossbow just because you get old. That used to be the motivation and how many people ended up shooting crossbows. But I'm seeing a lot of young guys shooting them now....because they are so much fun to shoot. It's not a compromise, or a tool for people that can't shoot a vertical bow anymore. It's just another way to hunt deer....or whatever game you hunt. Go for it and never look back!
Twolf
Well-Known Member
we do have a lot of x-bow haters they seem selfish to me and they forget the x-bow was used by the Norsemen/Vikings 100`s of years ago ,compound bows were only invented around 50 years ago and recurve bows less than a 100 years ago. i just don`t understand this fight with handi - cap or old bowhunters that use a x-bow ? why ? us old bowhunters made archery what it is today not the new compound people of today . many of these new bowhunters of today seem too selfish , think they know it all ,some are professionals like doctors, lawyers ,dentist , city people and try to pride themselves as a real bowhunter in the wilderness , but they are just fooling themselves .
