Why not to hunt Idaho....

[royinidaho]

Here we have Idaho...... The hunters paradise....

Bring your money and come on......



Idaho elk graphs from 1989-2012

 

[Mike 338]

I thought it was just me. On the bright side, if you don't shoot anything, you get to use all your time off hunting.

 

[marioq]

Is that because there are no animals???
Or they cut the tags?
Or is there just not many people hunting???

 

[Mike 338]

Is that because there are no animals???
Or they cut the tags?
Or is there just not many people hunting???

All fair questions. I looked at two large units I'm familiar with. One in a very remote area and one adjacent to a very populated and hard-hunted area. One thing these graphs leave off is "hunter success rate". I looked at "General Season" hunts from 2007 to 2012 where number of available tags is not a factor. It appears that hunter numbers have significantly fallen off. In the populated unit, they dropped by about 24% and in the remote unit they fell off by about 48% (not many hunters in this area anyway). As you can see, there are far fewer hunters in the field. Generally, one would think if there are less hunters and the same amount of game, the success rate would be good or better than before but by my estimation, hunter success in the remote area fell off by 29%ish and in the populated area, by 28%ish (a uniform drop off).

How to interpret this? Who knows? Until they start tying up elk in malls, unless single parent homes (moms) teach their kids to hunt and the existing hunters figure how to turn back the clock, hunter numbers will take a hit. I think deer and elk numbers have taken a hit too. The success rate suggests this and just poking around in the woods, I see less sign. It could be environmental, biological or predators. I did notice that mule deer numbers in the West were crashing before the wolf problem so I don't blame the wolves entirely but they're definitely part of the mix. I noticed that the take-numbers and the success-rate appear to be leveling off. We should see predation diminish as food supply diminishes and disease takes over.

My take... If you can afford it, buy a guided hunt where the success rate is high. If you can't afford it, do more pre-season scouting. If you can't do that, just go hunting anyway and forget things like success-rate because even when the odds are good, they're still against you but at least your hunting.

 

[marioq]

All fair questions. I looked at two large units I'm familiar with. One in a very remote area and one adjacent to a very populated and hard-hunted area. One thing these graphs leave off is "hunter success rate". I looked at "General Season" hunts from 2007 to 2012 where number of available tags is not a factor. It appears that hunter numbers have significantly fallen off. In the populated unit, they dropped by about 24% and in the remote unit they fell off by about 48% (not many hunters in this area anyway). As you can see, there are far fewer hunters in the field. Generally, one would think if there are less hunters and the same amount of game, the success rate would be good or better than before but by my estimation, hunter success in the remote area fell off by 29%ish and in the populated area, by 28%ish (a uniform drop off).

How to interpret this? Who knows? Until they start tying up elk in malls, unless single parent homes (moms) teach their kids to hunt and the existing hunters figure how to turn back the clock, hunter numbers will take a hit. I think deer and elk numbers have taken a hit too. The success rate suggests this and just poking around in the woods, I see less sign. It could be environmental, biological or predators. I did notice that mule deer numbers in the West were crashing before the wolf problem so I don't blame the wolves entirely but they're definitely part of the mix. I noticed that the take-numbers and the success-rate appear to be leveling off. We should see predation diminish as food supply diminishes and disease takes over.

My take... If you can afford it, buy a guided hunt where the success rate is high. If you can't afford it, do more pre-season scouting. If you can't do that, just go hunting anyway and forget things like success-rate because even when the odds are good, they're still against you but at least your hunting.

You are 100% right. A bad day hunting is almost always better than a good day at work!!!!! Unless that good day at work pays for a heck of a hunt!!!!!

 

[Dosh]

I noticed many of the numbers coincide with the economic cycle. I have noted the reduced numbers of hunters here in AZ during the economic down turn. Hunters want to go hunting, but they haven't the resources to do so. As we all read posts of $$$ spent on custom rigs, the majority of hunting enthusiasts are hard working family oriented people that are limited financially. This concerns me since I would like to see more kids get started hunting and shooting. If you add all the $$$ you put out for licenses, tags, fuel, food, firearms, ammunition and equipment needed before you even walk into the field on opening day, it is unattainable to many. Game numbers fluctuate over the years and disease, predators, and encroachment contribute to hunt success. As we all have seen the "road hunters" do little for the success rate and many more senior hunters can't navagate the terrain as well as they used to. In the past several years I have seen a much higher rate of silver hair (including me) than youth on my hunts. We need to help ourselves to correct some of these issues by hunting predators, encouraging youth to hunt and being involved in any effort to improve the game numbers for hunting. My 3 grandsons started shooting at 5 and they are now helping my son reload and go with us to hunt coyotes in the units where the antelope a deer are declining. It's not going to fix itself and the Feds and state aren't going to be much help either. I don't know all the answers, perhaps another member could enlighten us. Please excuse the length, but just my thoughts.

 

[HARPERC]

You are 100% right. A bad day hunting is almost always better than a good day at work!!!!! Unless that good day at work pays for a heck of a hunt!!!!!

I put in more days at work, to pay for "a heck of a hunt" every now and then, than I should admit. All of it's getting harder to keep up with, enough for me to not waste resources, chasing game that does not exist.

The graph of Unit 10 clocks exactly with on the ground reports I've had from reliable folks with a couple of decades experience in that unit. One friend wolf hunted it fairly hard a couple of years back. I can't recall how many days, but a lot. He saw 116 elk (probably some more than once), extremely low numbers from his experience. Kicker being only 1 calf.

The 2013 Yellowstone elk count reportedly did not find a single carry over calf for the season.

If it was ever about game management those days are gone. License sales are down, hunting requires repeat customers. Marketing can get them in the door the first time, but the experience on the ground isn't bringing 'em back.

Grim numbers.

 

[Mike 338]

The 2013 Yellowstone elk count reportedly did not find a single carry over calf for the season.

If it was ever about game management those days are gone. License sales are down, hunting requires repeat customers. Marketing can get them in the door the first time, but the experience on the ground isn't bringing 'em back.

Grim numbers.

No calves counted? That is grim.

Those graphs and stats are showing a flatline. I expect something to happen soon, one way or the other.

 

[royinidaho]

In 2007 a couple of us spent 30+ days in Unit 21. Saw elk about every second day or so.

None closer than 1500 yards. Largest 'group' was 12, with no bull or spikes. Only a couple of calves.

One group had 8 with a decent bull.

Another group of 4 were seen regularly. 3 cows and a decent bull.

We shared the area with a lone wolf that ate mostly snowshoe hares and a legendary black bear never to be seen.

Saw somewhere around 6 calves and no spikes....

Big fire there a couple of years ago. Haven't been back since.

Maybe in 2016...

 

[Mike 338]

In 2007 a couple of us spent 30+ days in Unit 21. Saw elk about every second day or so.

None closer than 1500 yards. Largest 'group' was 12, with no bull or spikes. Only a couple of calves.

One group had 8 with a decent bull.

Another group of 4 were seen regularly. 3 cows and a decent bull.

We shared the area with a lone wolf that ate mostly snowshoe hares and a legendary black bear never to be seen.

Saw somewhere around 6 calves and no spikes....

Big fire there a couple of years ago. Haven't been back since.

Maybe in 2016...

2007 was a good year according to the graphs but it took a nosedive after that.

 

[DocB]

Wow....


DocB

 

[bkondeff]

This post shows that there is always more to the story. For the past 10 years here in Idaho we have hunted primarily unit 39 OTC tags, and also hunted easy to draw units like LE units in SC Idaho. On an age day we see about 30 elk and rarely see zero. The catch is getting close enough, even with ever increasing LR capabilities. Our teams success rate is about 50%, so above average. Success rate on LE hunts is close to 100% on shot opportunities.

While I admit Idaho is lacking on mature Bulls and even the genetics of some other states, I do believe our herds are doing well and have been improving the past 3-5 years. Wolves are not decimating herds, though they definitely can impact them when unchecked. Wolves have pushed them out of the openings and decreased typical herd sizes into smaller bands.

I do believe the biggest difficulty in hunting elk in Idaho is terrain. It's steep and/or thick up north and simply STEEP everywhere elk live in central Idaho. Southern Idaho has some great hunts, but not a lot of population, historically. We have a lot of pressure on these elk with OTC archery hunts in almost all units and OTC rifle tags in many of the most populated.

I have only hunted elk for 11 seasons and if I can find them so regularly so can others, but it's hard work getting shot opportunities and as we all know harder work getting them to the freezer. We are a true opportunity state.

 

[gus 1]

animal counts on wintering grounds are down by probably 80%

 

[Hatrick]

I noticed many of the numbers coincide with the economic cycle. I have noted the reduced numbers of hunters here in AZ during the economic down turn. Hunters want to go hunting, but they haven't the resources to do so. As we all read posts of $$$ spent on custom rigs, the majority of hunting enthusiasts are hard working family oriented people that are limited financially. This concerns me since I would like to see more kids get started hunting and shooting. If you add all the $$$ you put out for licenses, tags, fuel, food, firearms, ammunition and equipment needed before you even walk into the field on opening day, it is unattainable to many. Game numbers fluctuate over the years and disease, predators, and encroachment contribute to hunt success. As we all have seen the "road hunters" do little for the success rate and many more senior hunters can't navagate the terrain as well as they used to. In the past several years I have seen a much higher rate of silver hair (including me) than youth on my hunts. We need to help ourselves to correct some of these issues by hunting predators, encouraging youth to hunt and being involved in any effort to improve the game numbers for hunting. My 3 grandsons started shooting at 5 and they are now helping my son reload and go with us to hunt coyotes in the units where the antelope a deer are declining. It's not going to fix itself and the Feds and state aren't going to be much help either. I don't know all the answers, perhaps another member could enlighten us. Please excuse the length, but just my thoughts.

You can say exactly the same thing about offshore fishing. $$$, lack of fish,(no bait fish to bring them here) and lack of interest in the younger generation, regulations.