Where are the pro gun people when you need em?

[steve smith]

I just watched a few videos put together by the anti-gun lobby on youtube.com, using excerbts for 60min report on the 50bmg (calling it the rolls royce of assult/sniper rounds). This CRAP makes my blood boil! They claim that one round from a fifty could bring down a passenger airliner. WELL NO [censored], BUT WHAT THEY DON TELL YOU IS THAT ONE ROUND FROM ANY HIGH POWERED RIFLE COULD DO THE SAME THING. One of the videos was a political ad in CA that the police department participated in. They described how a 50cal round can pass through the doors of one POLICE car then through the doors of another POLICE car and still have enough energy to kill you. Again NO [censored]! I've got a 30-30 that will do the same thing using hunting bullets let alone so called armor piercing bullets. Which by the way is just about any projectile of sufficient mass with an impact velocity of around 1500-2000fps. The more mass the less velocity it takes, kevlar works by slowing the projo down. If there is enough mass or velocity the kevlar can't slow the bullet down fast enough and fails, not because the bullets were designed to do that but because of the limitations of the kevlar. Hell a 17 rem fired at close range will penetrate at least the front side of a kevlar vest. Take a 180gr 45ACP bullet and accelerate it to 2000fps and that thing will zip right through a so-called bullet proof vest. It's not until you put ceramic plates in the vest that it will have even a chance of stopping bullets traveling at higher velocities, and I ain't talking AP bullets either I'm talking soft point hunting bullets. Don't even get me started on those banned black talon (cop killer) bullets. The pistol bullets with teflon coating originaly designed to eliminate copper fouling (which worked in eliminating the copper but only replaced it with teflon fouling), I'd realy like for someone to show me proof of any crime they were used in where they pierced a kevlar vest when fired at handgun velocities. If only the american public were educated in the physics involved in how a bullet is able to penetrate anything instead of being frightened into believing that if it's military IT'S GONNA KILL YOU. I've done a lot a paper punching, rock shooting, as well as shooting steel. When you can put a hole though a 1/4" steel plate at 750yds and it has the same appearance as one shot point blank (no dimple just a nice hole with metal flowing both directions ie. high impact velocity) with nothing more than a 270cal 135gr SMK with initial velocity @3800fps, I think my hunting rifle is next on the HIT LIST! They're going to start with the 50bmg and next it will be every caliber ever adopted by any military on earth. OH [censored]! THAT'S JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING OUT THERE EXCEPT FOR MAYBE THAT DAINTY LITTLE 17CAL. That is until some government adopts it in there next weapon of choice, if they haven't already done it.

Well If your reading this I apologize! Just had to vent some of the frustrations that have been building up before I blew up.

 

[Gary Kaney]

I feel we as firearm owners have become to complasiant. That uneducated [censored] makes my blood boil also. This up coming election i feel is going to hurt us big time, probably more so in 2008. There are to many people voting for there billfolds than there constitutional rights. Just my opinion.

 

[murf]

Good evening fellas,

On the soap box I go! To start with, I feel we are at a point of no return as gun owners / sportsmen. The damage is done and voting for a specific rat (politician) is not going to do a whole lot for us, no matter who the rat is. The maggots in this country have set the anti-gun ball in motion (and has been for alot of years) and I don't forsee us turning it around anytime soon, if ever. I am not one to give up and never will and I definately don't want to sound like so but we have our work cut out for us. If voting practices help at all, it is very little at best and my only advice is to share and teach our beloved sport with every young individual you possibly can. I know you've heard it a billion times "Take a child hunting or fishing" but that is our only hope, the old rats in this country of ours will probably fight us to the end and changing their minds is not going to happen. Our children are our future in every since of the word.
In closing, I dispise the scum that our government is made of 100% through and through. And If I could spit, **** and s*#& in the face of everyone of them and get away with it I would, as a matter of fact I would do alot worse if I could get away with it. Just look at history and see what it has taken to rid a society of crooked, twisted and evil government. I hate to think about it myself, but it has to happen, if not soon then maybe later - this government of ours has to go and may our new government born of civil war consisting of good hearted folks like you and I shoot straight in every since of the word and may the power posessed never bare corruption like our current governments; Federal, state and local. They can have my guns, when they pry them from my dead, cold and blue hands.



Murf

 

[Mountainsheep]

Murf,
I agree with your sentiment and purpose, but for all of our sakes please use caution with the militant phrases. The general public is as nervous as any old doe you will ever encounter, and they will do anything to eliminate a perceived threat to their sense of security, as long it doesn't cause them any personal inconvenience. As far as who holds government office, the voters get what they are willing to accept. What actually runs the government is oil, pharmaceuticals, insurance and most of all the MEDIA. The media manipulates the sheepfold by keeping them informed of what is less likely to disturb their perfect world and to glamorize the "Hollywood" lifestyle as an inspiration for all to be eternally beautiful, charitable and dedicated to preserving all that is "good" in the world. Just this morning the Today Show aired a segment informing us how to protect our pets from being traumatized by exposure to people wearing Halloween costumes. Please gimme a break! The media loves this power, and they have it because of their 1st amendment right. As hunters and gun owners we have to let everyone know that if the 2nd amendment is challenged, then the 1st amendment is open to challenge as well. Although I get every bit as angry at this crap as anyone else may, I realize this is not a conflict involving violence, war or any threat of such. It is a chess game of devious trade-offs and suspicious stalemates. In other words, let it be known we will boycott products, push legislation for restrictive advertising, promote stricter FDA regulations and speak out for stringent censorship standards. By doing this we not only have a viable counter assault, but we will be taking a position that can be allied with and supported by other influential groups. There is no winning, it is just preservation of what we have, and not threatening what they have. I wish it were not that way, but I don't see any practical alternative.

Dave

 

[EddieHarren]

Aren't we the pro-gun people? When is the last time you contacted your politicians to voice your views or ask them their position on gun control? As this election draws near I have been approached by many, on the local level. My first question is always, "Where do you stand on gun control?"

 

[Mountainsheep]

DocEd,
Yes, I am very much a Pro-Gun person. It's funny you mentioned being approached by many; I also have been approached by several representatives from both parties, but I swear I have yet to be asked for my vote. All they have requested is a monetary donation; this is what I find scary.
Happy Halloween,
Dave

 

[murf]

Mountainsheep,

I am not a militant and my words are not militant phrases either, I am just stating the obvious as I see it. I don't believe in political correctness (never will). Things are what they are, and nothing else. You see that is exactly why were in the situation we are in, because the citizens have turned into nothing more than a giant flock of sheep that conform to everything instead of standing up for what they believe in. Think real hard about the following.

The noted Philosopher George Santayana once said, "Those who do not learn from History, are doomed to repeat it."


Murf

 

[steve smith]

[ QUOTE ]
the citizens have turned into nothing more than a giant flock of sheep that conform to everything instead of standing up for what they believe in.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that the giant flock of sheep, believes what it's told to believe. If someone gets on the TV wearing a police uniform saying that this gun or that gun is the enemy, they believe it. If you ask them "why" they will get all deffensive. Simply by asking them to backup their claim you are already classified a a gun nut or militant. Even if you prove them wrong (through a meaningfull and intelligent conversation) they're not likely to change there mind. Until they see someone (that they give a higher authority to) get on TV saying that this gun or that one isn't the enemy "Military weapon or not, armor piercing or not", because just about any of them could do the same thing. People hear the term armor peircing and they think "OH NO! THAT COULD GO RIGHT THROUGH MY HOUSE OR MY CAR!" not realizing that the only thing keeping a hunting bullet from doing the same thing is no one is shooting at their house or car. The danger that they're getting so afraid of has been there since they were born. It's been there and hasn't happened yet, but now that they know about it "it's only a matter of time". It's now gone from a miniscule possibility to probable certainty. That is the sentiment of the American people, they are quite happy living their lives of quiet desperation (meaning that everything is fine until it effects me, then there is something wrong), now they think they are in danger. Instead of doing their home work and figuring things out on their own, they are satisfied to let someone else take responsibility for it, and go on with there lives, not paying attention to the fact that other peoples fears are slowly and quietly stripping away their right to do anything at all.

 

[rotorhead]

I agree, the people in this day and age have a very selfish me me me me attitude, at least for the right here and now, they can't see the big picture. but If it don't affect them right now it must not matter. The selfishness of this country is the real problem, I feel. I want, I need, give me. It seams as if they all don't care or have 1 ounce of respect for the people that created this great country and the men that died for them right or wrong. They all want to change the one thing that has kept this country fairly safe, we are all armed this is why no one comes and attacks us traditionally. We need to close the dadgum boarders and get rid of none citizens get this country back on track. Then and only then we will accept legal means of entering our country. We should have done this when we got hit on 9/11 but oh no we can't do what we did when pearl harbor got hit we may hurt somebodys feelings. Why does this suprise me, heck, most people don't even seam to give a hoot about there own kids. People, I am amazed at the behavior of the kids in the stores today, my Mom and Dad would have smacked me in the back of the head for rude behavor. Manners and common respect was there motto and I was going to listen! I love this country and I see you guys do to. Just don't give up keep trying to improve our situation even if the results are slow to come. Be a good husband/wife, an ethical hunter a country man, and especially a good parent. Kick there butt when they need it!!!!!! This will make them think about what they are doing, which is the problem people don't think.

RH

 

[steve smith]

If people would just approach life with skepticism and question everything, we might have a chance. Human nature dictates differently, we choose the easy road. We believe what we are told to believe. The problem doesn't lie in certain people who happen to believe differently than we do, the problem lies within all human beings. For some reason, when someone tells us something that goes along with our beliefs or relates to which we know nothing of, we tend to take it as fact. Once the initial belief is in place it takes a very long time to change it, even when you can show conclusive and definitave evidence that for all intended purposes, proves your point, people just don't accept it. Come on, 40 some odd percent of the american public believe that the united states never landed a man on the moon. But wait just a minute, weren't we in a cold war at the time? Didn't the Russians watch every move we made with their radar/radio tracking stations around Europe? Makes sense that if they had detected nothing going out into space leaving earth orbit and returning that they would have spoken up! Some people still just won't believe it.
It's the same in this situation. I feel that instead of trying to prove the opposition wrong, we should focus on trying to get people to be skeptical of everything, make them want to ask questions. Force the opposition to try to prove them selves right, then stand back and ask more questions.
1. Did you take into account this variable?
2. Why did you choose this senario vs a more reallistic one?
3. Why do you feel that this senario is realistic when collected data says otherwise?
4. These weapons and ammunition have been available to the public for a very long time, why all the sudden is it so dangerous?
5. Why is this any more dangerous than 99% of the weapons already out there?
6. If it's so dangerous, why are there not more recorded events, where these weapons were used in the commission of a crime?
7. Terrorist have always been a problem in the united states, albeit not usually on the scale of 9/11, why haven't they used these weapons to attack us?
8. If it would be so easy for a terrorist to use this particular weapon to shoot down an airliner, why has it not happened yet?

When you ask question such as these, you are planting the seeds of decsent. People won't necessarily change their mind immediately, but you have created the opportunity for them to do so, and without attacking anyone. That is the key, you let the opposition undermine themselves, let them do all the work! THERE I GO AGAIN, BEING LAZY!

Oh! Well. I can't sovle the worlds problems right now! I've gotta get some sleep, cause deer season opens up this weekend! Yiiipeee

 

[ol mike]

I wholeheartly believe that the gun takers whomever they claim to be should firmly know that there will be a WAR when they come to physically take our guns!If you don't feel that way it is a slap in the face to our forefathers who fought and died for that right.I WILL NOT BE TAUGHT TOLERANCE ,where would we be if our forefathers where tolerent of the king??
I'll vote for pro-gun politions- i'll banter back and forth w/the anti's but when someone comes for mine there will be a war...
Anti-gun has a reason behind it and the media elitist have a plan.
Some people don't see the big picture of the globalist elitist and their plan for world domination.Our constitution means absolutely nothing to them ,they want to control the world under their laws not our forefathers.
If you owned/controlled the media you would have a certain format of things that would be present there because these are your beliefs.For instance if you were a believer in god ,country ,and family it would show.
It's my opinion that the owners/controllers of the media believe in none of the above or you wouldn't see constant homosexuality ,gay marriage ,feminism ,down w/guns and the nuts that own them!
Make no mistake american politions are owned by international businessmen [greedmoneywhores] who get what they want w/their frontman/polition.
The media controllers are even trying to control the internet.I read that verizon wireless spends 1.5 million per week lobbing congress and at&t is right on their heels moneywise.Websites like this would be gone in short order due to the expense of bandwidth.Allowing the common person to have a view on topics like this isn't helping w/the big plan i guess.
Oh well got a lot of reloading to do -take care.Mike

 

[murf]

ol'mike,

NO TOLERANCE, Amen to that!


Murf

 

[steve smith]

Ya know mike, I agree with you there. To a point! I don't think the the media in general wants to see the 2nd amendment done away with. The media has an agenda of it's own, and that is to make money! The media thrives on things appearing to be in constant upheaval. I don't think that they really care one way or the other as long as it gets people hot under the collar, we're talkin ratings here! It's just like when those american reporters in iraq, got footage of iraqi insurgence stalking and sniping american soldiers. This wasn't so that it might bring a quick end to the war, getting american public to force US to pull out, but solely to get americans watching TV and to get ratings. Making the US appear to be conflicted right down the middle makes them money, and that's the bottom line. If anybody thinks that the media in general wants this war to end they are out of their mind, the war in iraq is a free meal ticket for the press! What better way to put the whole US into conflict than to hit on hot button topics. When they don't have real hot "sheezit" to report on, they fiiiiillllllllllllllllllllllll the audience with all this fluff ********. I mean, who the hell should care that some celebrity got drunk and made a fool of themself. Big ffin deal. Yet this is what gets ratings and is what makes the media corporations money.

I do think that you are absolutely correct to say that american politicians, in general, are nothing more than greedmoneywhores. They probably started out thinking that they might actualy make a difference, but they learned along the way that honesty don't get you nothin in politics. It's all about "holding babys and stealing their lollypops. In a way I can't blame them, after all the system is no where close to perfect. If your constituents want/need this, you'd better vote this way on this legislation authorizing such and such expenditures on this or that project, or your constituents won't be getting anything. That's the way government works, everything is a compromise. I guess all I can say is that they try their best to get what they need for their constituents without compromising to much on what their constituents want, but not really caring what effect it might have on the rest of the country. Hell, Texas receives federal hiway funds, those fund are routinely used as leverage to get votes for some piece of legislation, a peice of legislation that is not necessarily in the best intrest of "Joe Texan" let alone the US, but what are you going to do, we have become very dependant on those federal hiway funds. To cut them off now would really through things into the fan, and talkin about s**** hittin the fan, THAT WOULD PUT TEXAS INTO A BIND. KINDA THINKIN TX, MAYBE SHOULD SECEED FROM THE UNION, AT THIS POINT. Hell we've got enough of everything to survive on our own.
If only they would aprove line item voting, we could realy see who thinks what. Get the two faced jackasses out of government and replace them with some people who will serve the intrest of their constituents.

I presonaly am not going to bash big buisness, after all they do make up the vast majority of the GDP every year. They are simply trying to produce for their stock holders, can't blame them. Typicaly the better they do the better the economy is. The problem I have is the fact that they can contribute to political campaigns. Although, they do tend to go middle road, they're not stupid. They will contribute $100k one candidate and $90k to his opposition. The only difference in who gets the larger amount is, who's most likely to win the election, or whos politics most favor the lobby. I just don't know, politics is a tricky thing, you just can't ever tell who's on the up n up. Can't tell who's feedin you the horse hockey, if not both of'em.

Anybody seen the unemployement rate as of late? Looks like Bush really screwed up the economy don't it! Lowest rate ever. Not saying that it was all him, but anybody who thinks Clinton was the cause of the prosperity a few years back better start eating crow! But it's really funny, how the clintonites are saying how worse off we are now. Just remember that the more that you repeat a lie, the more likely that people are willing to beleive it. Ya, Bush is at fault for fuel prices going sky high, but yet they will criticize him for going after the oil in iraq. Not that I believe that's why we are actualy there. Hell, Hugo Chavez, is one american hating muther fu####, he will give oil away to other countries all the while jacking the price up on the US. It would pretty accurate to say that most other countries dislike if not hate the US, for one reason or another. Why doesn't the media focus on that, people like chavez are the reason that the price of fuel is so high in the US. He (as well as others) cut off our supply, no one else picks up his slack and there's a shortage, ie. prices skyrocket. The reason that the prices have resently declined is the fact that general motors anounced that they would be actively pursuing alt fuel trans tech. Within a few hours of the public anouncement, OPEC is on the phone saying that they will pick up the slack in oil production for those countries who cut back production. Namely Iran. What do you know, a week later the price of fuel begins to drop.

OH well! I ain't solvin nobodies problems right now. I'm gettin drunk, this Jack Daniels is going to kick my *** in the morning. I'm done rambling on for now.
Again, If you've actualy read this far, I apologize. I just venting, all this built up crap is going to make me go postal if'n I don't get it out of my system.

 

[ol mike]

Txhunter ,

You have some good points on the media but i still believe they have a master plan.
I watched C-Span2 about a two weeks ago ,a group of fcc = federal communications top brass were onhand to listen to the publics complaints about the amount of control that 6 media moguls have.Several people pointed out that these 6 guys know one another very well.The general public speakers recieved 2 minutes each to air their oppinions/complaints.Many spoke out about the swayed and very biased propaganda the media belches out every day 24/7.
I also watched another program on PBS awhile back that tiptoed around this same topic.The media moguls are some of the richest people in the world and the media money has bought out many huge companies or has controlling interest of them -general electric was one -i can't remember anymore at the moment.
Anyway- as you stated these huge companies are just trying to earn the most for their shareholders at all cost's!They don't care if people lose their jobs because they can outsource products and save money in labor.Between them and their frontmen/politions they all just want to keep the doors to america swinging wide open to dump their chinese crap.
It all reminds me of some reading i did about russia and how the country was wrecked and then taken over by the bolshevik leon trotsky aka lenin.Keep the borders open ,take all the guns ,dilute their patriatism w/feminism ,homosexuality ,be tolerent and i'll tell you what you believe!
Sadly more and more people believe the media tells them all they need to know.
Well hope you felt chipper this morning after the cocktails best of luck- Mike